Learn How Matt Rock continues to improve his fitness with a full-time job and four kids.
Matt Rock
Rich Ryan: [00:00:00] Today we have Matt rock and Matt rock. He’s the best kind of guy. I loved talking with him at races. And I love talking to him on this podcast. And Matt is interesting because he came into competitive, running in his early to mid thirties and just decided to go after it. And he started out on the roads and he found himself eventually into OCR.
[00:00:30] We’re now at the age of 40, he is one of the best competitors in the world. Things on his resume, several podium finishes last year in 2019 and the second place overall in the Spartan mountain series. So Matt competitive chops to bank with them. Anybody at the top. So during the episode, we talk about the process of coming in to elite running later in life.
[00:00:53] He also has four kids and a full time job. So we talk a lot about the balance of those things and how he’s able to stay competitive and, and why it’s not only something he enjoys, but also something essential for his, his personal and family life. And also we talk a lot about. How are the things that he’s doing sends a positive message to his kids, through training and racing, and kind of how to harness that the why underneath the things that he’s doing to, you know, show, to be a positive example for, for his family.
[00:01:25] So I really love this conversation and I love this guy here. He is. Matt rock.
[00:01:36] We’re recording. My friend, Matt rock is here. What’s going on, dude?
[00:01:39] Matt Rock: [00:01:39] Not too much, man. Good to be here.
[00:01:41] Rich Ryan: [00:01:41] I think this is the record for the earliest podcast we’ve ever recorded. It’s six, 15 your time.
[00:01:48] Matt Rock: [00:01:48] Yeah, six 15. I was up at five, man. I mean, it’s kind of a big deal to me. Rich Ryan dude. I mean, I kinda, I kind of feel like it’s a race morning.
[00:01:58] My endorphins are going.
[00:02:00] Rich Ryan: [00:02:00] So a big bowel movement goes didn’t didn’t sleep. well, I, I think this is about as important as a big race. I like to hold myself up to that. Right. So I think, I think, I think that’s warranted. but yeah, no, I, that that’s that’s Man shit right there getting up at five and doing this podcast that early.
[00:02:19] So
[00:02:20] Matt Rock: [00:02:20] I got a dose of Enderlee down too, for this podcast
[00:02:25] Rich Ryan: [00:02:25] shots doing Durley. so. Yeah. I want to dive in, do a talk about your background. Yeah. And give people some insight about who you are and you know, how training with full time job and the whole family. Wow. That, that really is balancing and how you’re doing so well on the elite level.
[00:02:41] But first I have a couple of random questions for you. It’s called the rapport round. Are you ready for it?
[00:02:46] Matt Rock: [00:02:46] I’m ready.
[00:02:47] Rich Ryan: [00:02:47] Alright, let’s do it. So if you had to eat three, like foods or meals, we’ll say for the rest of your life, what three would you
[00:02:55] Matt Rock: [00:02:55] pick? Oh, my goodness. Gosh, dude. I love food. I mean, I’ve had people ask me what I eat and I just tell them I eat food.
[00:03:05] I would say my go to is probably a good, slow smoked steak. Okay. My wife and I got a Trager grill. Several years ago and we put everything on that grill. I mean, we’ll see, we’ll slow smoke, a big plate of nachos, chicken pot pie. I mean, but I would say probably a good season steak and I like to cook it through about medium.
[00:03:29] You know, it doesn’t have to be a real runny or juicy, but, I like meat. I like carbs. So that probably me, when I go to throw a few potatoes in there and. I’m good to go, man.
[00:03:38] Rich Ryan: [00:03:38] Steak and potatoes.
[00:03:40] Matt Rock: [00:03:40] Oh yeah.
[00:03:42] Rich Ryan: [00:03:42] The, do you have like a, like a preferred butcher that you go to? I haven’t, I’ve never cooked my own meat really.
[00:03:47] I’ve just had have a grill now and I haven’t gotten into it. And I’m also worried about getting like the right kind of just like reading it and just like, not knowing what to do. If you have a GoTo butcher or are you like, will you just get whatever’s available and just do the best you can?
[00:04:02] Matt Rock: [00:04:02] I grew up.
[00:04:03] But hunting. So I do a lot of wild game meat, but, as far as my favorite, I would probably say we, just a nice New York steak or a tri tip whereby no, no, no specific butcher. we get a lot of our meat at Costco, you know, it seems to be a pretty good quality cut. Anytime you go to Costco, kind of a GoTo.
[00:04:25]but yeah.
[00:04:26] Rich Ryan: [00:04:26] I have heard that when you’re eating the, like the game meat, are you harvesting that yourself or did they sell a lot of game meat by your neck of the woods?
[00:04:35] Matt Rock: [00:04:35] You know, you really can’t buy it. I’ve I’ve, I’ve heard there a lot of regulations on that because the wa the FDA doesn’t do a whole lot of testing on it.
[00:04:44] There’s, you know, there’s a lot of that chronic wasting disease going on in, the region, the Northwest region. And, I just,
[00:04:52] Rich Ryan: [00:04:52] I don’t know what that is. What is that?
[00:04:54] Matt Rock: [00:04:54] Well, I think it started in, in a cattle and then it moved to bias and, or vice versa started in bison, went to cattle and then it started to spread to a game.
[00:05:03] And I think what it is, it’s a, it’s a disease that, Ends up in their droppings and it gets out in the field and one, the other animals eat the grass, they acquire this disease and mostly they say the meat is harmless to humans. If an animal has this chronic wasting disease, but it’s kind of a big deal.
[00:05:22] Cause it’s, it’s been known to wipe out entire herds of domestic livestock and wild game. And, but they say, you know, You can get your mate tested and if, if it has the disease, then just make sure cook it really well. But personally, if I, if I. Harvested a deer. And I knew it had chronic wasting disease.
[00:05:41] I don’t know if I bring that into my home.
[00:05:45] Rich Ryan: [00:05:45] Yeah. They’re safe. Yeah.
[00:05:47] Matt Rock: [00:05:47] It’s supposed to be a hard or lodged mostly in their brains and some other Oregon’s rather than their meat, but yeah, it’s just one of those things that’s going on right now. so anyway, yeah, I, I hope harvest all my own and we’d go in pretty remote regions of the state and bring back our own deer.
[00:06:06] Cut them up. And
[00:06:08] Rich Ryan: [00:06:08] how long will that last? You, you had that for 40 year.
[00:06:11] Matt Rock: [00:06:11] Yeah, typically when I, when I go hunting, I, gosh, I would say I harvested anywhere from two to three animals per year, and I like to save as much of the animal as I can. I mean, we’ll, we’ll do the heart and the liver and we’ll all bring them home and chop them up and freeze little one and one by one inch cubes.
[00:06:31] And use those for my dog and he just loves, I’m gonna throw a frozen treats. I’ll throw them out and give him to mix them up in his food. And, yeah. You know, with, with two, three, four animals, I mean, that’ll feed our family for a whole year and it’s not like we’re eating it every night. I mean, once a week
[00:06:49] Rich Ryan: [00:06:49] that, and that’s like an amazing use of it and in a way to go about.
[00:06:55] The hunting and having it be it’s completely organic at that point, you know, it is wild as it can be.
[00:07:01] Matt Rock: [00:07:01] Yup. Yup.
[00:07:02] Rich Ryan: [00:07:02] And being able to harvest it like every, every month, last little piece really is, is a, is a good, good bet. And how often will you go hunting then? Like, is that, I mean, I know there are seasons, right.
[00:07:12] And like, so are you going as much as you can, are you going specifically, it’s like, if I can get to that I’m good for the year or is it like a mixture of both like kind of pleasure and for,
[00:07:22] Matt Rock: [00:07:22] yeah, exactly. I mean, To hunt to provide for the family and then we don’t need it. so mostly it’s, it’s just, yeah, kind of a family tradition.
[00:07:33] I like to get my boys out there and they just love it. I mean, they thrive on these long weekends. We’ll go off for three days and they just get into it. They get the binoculars out, they get their toy guns. And now one of my sons, he’s old enough to actually hunt next year. So nice. We’re going to do that, but it’s just fun to get out in the middle of nowhere where you don’t.
[00:07:52] I see anybody. I mean, you get back on some of these rural Montana roads and it’s like nothing you’ve ever seen. I mean, you’ll drive for miles and miles without seeing anybody. You still get the old farmer he’ll drive by and lift up finger to wave. That’s just kinda how it is. Don’t see. Be changing soon either.
[00:08:11] So, yeah, it’s a lot for the tradition, the fun, the enjoyment, and, just the laid back, pleasure of it. So.
[00:08:19] Rich Ryan: [00:08:19] Yeah. And is it, do you feel like you are like you catch heat? I mean, in your time, in your day neck of the woods, I feel like it is something that is just kind of in the culture. Right. Do you feel like it is something that is controversial in any way?
[00:08:31] Cause it seems like, it seems maybe just from what I consume on social media that people just want to be so anti like or pro animal one way or the other thing is just like Philip five more or less. Like, do you feel that.
[00:08:43] Matt Rock: [00:08:43] I don’t know, but yeah, it is kind of funny that you say that because I do see a lot of that in the background.
[00:08:48] Nothing really ever aimed at me, but oftentimes it’s somebody that’s saying, Oh yeah, you know, you shouldn’t hurt those animals while they’re eating a steak or chicken themselves. And I mean, at some point something has got to be harvested. What you know, and, and you, you want to do it in a very humane way.
[00:09:04] And, and I think hunting is one of the most natural ways to harvest an animal and provide for your family. So
[00:09:10] Rich Ryan: [00:09:10] it’s gotta be the most humane when you consider, I mean, I don’t want to, like, I don’t know all the ins and outs of how meat and livestock are raised and I don’t, from what I understand, It’s not awesome.
[00:09:22] I could imagine just having like harvesting an animal in the wild is going to be as humane as anything possible,
[00:09:29] Matt Rock: [00:09:29] right? Yup. But I don’t personally receive any flack from anybody. I’ve never heard anything. So. No, I guess if they wanted to fire some shots, that’s fine. Bring it. I understand too. I mean,
[00:09:42] Rich Ryan: [00:09:42] and maybe that’s also where I’m at too, you know, I live in the city, it’s like, you know, East coast type of bubble thing.
[00:09:47] So everyone’s kind of thinking the same type of thing all the time, or we’re about you and for insurance different off to come out. I’ve never, I’ve actually never shot a gun. And so if you, if you can take me out, I’ll come out all the binoculars, the toy gun, me and the boys will hang,
[00:10:02] Matt Rock: [00:10:02] we’d have a blast.
[00:10:03] That’d be awesome.
[00:10:04] Rich Ryan: [00:10:04] So Matt, you’re a super humble guy, but like right now I want, I want you to brag. Like what is something that you do better than anyone else, you know?
[00:10:13] Matt Rock: [00:10:13] Well, I, I actually wrote a book on my humility and how you attain it now.
[00:10:20] Rich Ryan: [00:10:20] I’m so humble. I can tell you how to be humble.
[00:10:23] Matt Rock: [00:10:23] Yeah, no, I don’t.
[00:10:25] I mean, you know, I guess I would, I would just say instead of humble, I’m kind of humbled by that statement because, You know, just hearing that I, sometimes I feel like I’m all about myself. I mean, I think we all kind of have that personal audience syndrome where we think everyone’s thinking about you.
[00:10:40] And, but in reality, is anybody sitting there pondering Matt or the city they’re pondering? Oh, what’s rich doing right now. And I mean, we’re all, we all have a tendency to just think about ourselves and. So I’m, I’m kind of humbled by the fact that you call me humble. So I, yeah, I don’t think of myself that way.
[00:11:00]but I, I suppose, I just, I just like to. I like to think about things in a way that I would want others to think about them. I like to put the light on somebody else versus me, because I know of they’ve given me a lot more than I feel I’ve given them. So if there’s any way I can give back, it’s a.
[00:11:19] Maybe switch the spotlight around a little bit. Yeah,
[00:11:23] Rich Ryan: [00:11:23] totally. And I feel that from you. And I think we get along that way because we share that like the first time we met, we were like, okay, okay. Like we’re friends, right? We’re like, yeah, we’re
[00:11:33] Matt Rock: [00:11:33] cool. Because I feel that was so many people in this sport. I mean, that’s one of the things I love about it.
[00:11:38] We’re all just kind of the same person, but different in a way. And you know, it just, it sparked so many great friendships that are instantly there
[00:11:47] Rich Ryan: [00:11:47] and I’ve worked at it. Right. And I think it is, I think it’s cool that it is across different communities and different people, different upbringings that there’s that one common thread.
[00:11:55] And even though it manifest itself in during extreme sports, like OCR, like there’s something within us that like, we connect with the other, person’s like, Oh, I see. I see you. I see what yeah. What it is about you that I, I can connect with, but you didn’t answer my question. What is one thing that you have that you do better than anybody else?
[00:12:14] Matt Rock: [00:12:14] Oh, man, I guess one of my hidden kind of, one of those obscure alternative talents that my brother and I have always had. We’ve we learned to juggle back when we were gosh, 19, 20, 20, one years old. And we, we just started juggling and, we played hacky sack. Oh, what we did is we started to fuse those two things together, where we would juggle.
[00:12:39] And we’d pass. we’d juggle hacky sacks. And so we’d, we’d sit there and do like three each and then we’d pass them and keep going. And then we’d mix in some hacky sex dolls. And we got to the point where we kind of, we got these nice little five, 10 minute routines going in it. I mean, to us, it looked pretty cool.
[00:12:58] And so you’d do a big stall and I can, I can stall a hacky sack on this six different faces of my foot. And back then. I mean, I just worked at it all the time and it was just one of those fun things to do. I mean, it’s not like it’s going to amount to anything in the future. One of the things you’re 19 years old, so, Oh, this is cool.
[00:13:18] I saw somebody do it once. So I’m going to get good at this. It’s like a
[00:13:21] Rich Ryan: [00:13:21] way to let the stereotypical slacker at the mall playing hockey. It’s
[00:13:26] Matt Rock: [00:13:26] like, what’s that going to do with your life?
[00:13:27] Rich Ryan: [00:13:27] It’s like, well, one day I’m going to talk about how I’m awesome at this. And like how many. Like when you juggle, what junior brother juggle, like, would you be able to do back and forth to like, or what is it always
[00:13:38] Matt Rock: [00:13:38] that’s yeah, we would pass to each other.
[00:13:40] We work out a, when we’d pass kind of getting into a rhythm and a routine. And, and we, I got to the point where I was able to do those, those, footstools where you could, Do I think it’s called a roundhouse, you’d throw it up and you’d bring it on the top of your foot. And if you’ve got your momentum going just right, you could flick it over the top of your head from behind you.
[00:14:00] And I got very good at that one and stall it, flick it over my head. Phil would catch it and pass me one at the same time. And we would just keep going that way. We’d mix it up five or six different types of stalls and passes and. I mean, it’s been years since we’ve done that and worked on it, but I’m sure it’s probably still there kind of like riding a bike, but, yeah.
[00:14:26] Rich Ryan: [00:14:26] Have you guys performed?
[00:14:27] Matt Rock: [00:14:27] No. No, never in front of any sort of audience. I mean, just kind of, we’d show our, our family and they’d be like, all cool, whatever we’d have VCR cameras back then we’d do some videos and. But if it might be, we fill in, I played baseball growing up and our baseball coach used to say, quit playing third world games, get over here and work
[00:14:53] Rich Ryan: [00:14:53] me the person I know who can juggle with someone who I play baseball with. And it would, would just do, it was like, I thought it was so cool. I couldn’t, and that was odd. And I was like, can I learn how to do that? And then I’d try it. Like, I don’t think I know how to do this.
[00:15:04] Matt Rock: [00:15:04] And I just learned the discipline of three, you know, I’ve seen people do four, four, five, six, seven, eight balls.
[00:15:10] And that blows my mind because I’ve just wrapped my muscle memory around doing three really well.
[00:15:17] Rich Ryan: [00:15:17] Yeah. But in your case, you’ve, you’ve learned how to bring in your other limbs into the factory to help. So I’m sure you could figure out how to get. Yeah on your hand or use your foot with it as well. I believe that you could do four or
[00:15:29] Matt Rock: [00:15:29] five forever.
[00:15:30] Had a major running injury had stopped that and maybe work on some, some different balls.
[00:15:36] Rich Ryan: [00:15:36] It’s good to have a contingency plan, an exit plan there.
[00:15:41] Matt Rock: [00:15:41] Yeah.
[00:15:42]Rich Ryan: [00:15:42] well, cool man. So you got through the rapport rounds though. Just tell us a little bit more about who you are as a person, as an athlete and kind of what you got going on in OCR.
[00:15:51] Matt Rock: [00:15:51] Cool man. Well, gosh. Yeah, I’ve never run in high school or college. I was always just in some of the, more of the ball sports and I always enjoyed running. I was always pretty good at it. But, one time my buddy was like, yeah, I guess there’s people that do these extremely long distances. And they’re like, they just run all day and they start and keep running.
[00:16:13] And I heard they’d go up to a hundred miles and I’m like, well, no way. I don’t think I’d ever be able to do that, but I enjoyed running. So I’d, I’d, I’d start. This, once a year, there was this race in the bear tooth mountains, and they called it the bear tooth run. And basically it’s a 10 K on top of a 10,000 foot plateau for you’re running this entire 10 K in kind of this vortex shape course where you, you start at the base.
[00:16:42] Of this big vortex of switchbacks going up each end. And I think you end up climbing up to 11,000 feet. And so in this 10 K you go up one end and then you come back down and then you go up the other and you come back down and you finish in the bottom of the V and it was brutal. and so, I started doing that when I was 19 years old.
[00:17:03] And when I first started running, I thought it was pretty good. And then, I got passed by this lady who had to have been 65. 68 years old. And so I’m just getting my ass kicked 19 years old and I’m thinking, well, this is, I mean, if I’m getting beat by this lady, basically Pat pushing a shopping cart, a Walker ahead of me.
[00:17:26] I don’t know if this is for me, but it just ticked me off. The fact that I could run a few miles pretty well, but after of four or five, six miles, I just died off. And so I just started working on it and I would literally train on a treadmill. I would run the exact distance of the race uphill on this treadmill.
[00:17:48] Like every day to train and that’s all I would do
[00:17:51] Rich Ryan: [00:17:51] for that 10 case. You just do a 10 K every time incline, just do a 10 K.
[00:17:55] Matt Rock: [00:17:55] Yep. That’s all I knew. I mean, I just, I didn’t know, periodization, and I’ve learned a heck of a lot, just listening to guys like you and, you know, Bracken and Kirk on their podcasts and stuff like that blows my mind when I hear you guys really dial in numbers and, you know, Ways to do a periodization and yeah, it’s just, it’s helped me a ton because I’m just a novice, I mean, I just like to get out there and do it.
[00:18:19] I feel my body can take, but now it’s kind of a game changer knowing there’s a science behind it.
[00:18:27] Rich Ryan: [00:18:27] Yeah. And like that, that’s a common route. It’s like, okay. My race is three miles. I want to be able to run in eight minutes, eight minutes per mile. I’m going to practice running eight minutes per mile for three miles every day.
[00:18:39] And you know, all the time. And it just gets to a point where, you know, you just reach a plateau. You’re kind of over-training at that point. So like, your story is pretty common among
[00:18:48] Matt Rock: [00:18:48] people who do
[00:18:49] Rich Ryan: [00:18:49] do just kind of start to come into it, but eventually. You started to run much longer than that, right? Like, so like how did you get past the 10 K threshold?
[00:19:00] Matt Rock: [00:19:00] Sure. So, my brother, you know, I would say I didn’t really start getting competitive in my running until I was probably about 33 years old. so yeah, we’re looking seven years back, in my brother, we were always the same, me and my twin brother, I mean, were identical. Twins. And, so he joined, sign up for a half marathon and he’s telling me about this.
[00:19:21] I’m like, dang 13 miles. I don’t know if I could do that. And so he works on it, you know, runs it and does pretty well. I think he won this half marathon in Washington and, and that he signs up for another one a month later and wins it again. And. You know, this happened four or five times, and then he’s like, dude, you should do one.
[00:19:40] And so I’m like, all right, I’ll see what they have here. And billings and sure enough, I mean, you start researching and there’s plenty. We have opportunity to run road races almost anywhere. And so long story short, I signed up for one train about the same as I was talking about, right. That would run up to 13.1 mile and call it good.
[00:20:01] And I ended up doing pretty well. I think I took like second or third. Hmm in this half marathon. And, gosh, I want to say my time was about 77 minutes, you know, so for me, I was on that’s pretty dang good. Definitely. I’ve never been a road racer, never been a good racer on the track. so yeah. Great job on that.
[00:20:20] Burpee 10 K, by the way, I mean that, that just blew my mind. What you guys were doing those in.
[00:20:25] Rich Ryan: [00:20:25] That was brutal, man. And your time is strong to me. You were 50, 52 and change.
[00:20:29] Matt Rock: [00:20:29] Yeah, but I mean, just looking at what you guys did. I was starting to do the math in my head is I guess a rich would have passed me about seven times.
[00:20:37] Rich Ryan: [00:20:37] What got you on it? Was it the running or was it the burpees?
[00:20:41] Matt Rock: [00:20:41] Yeah, I think just keep it. I’ve never been able to keep a good pace in that that could be on, on, on track and road. And that, that could be just due to lack of coaching. I mean, if somebody were to maybe coach me on, on my flat road running, I might improve.
[00:20:58]I feel like I used to be faster. But burpees felt the same all the way through. I felt like I was keeping the same pace and I just kind of settled into the pace where I felt like was my threshold.
[00:21:11] Rich Ryan: [00:21:11] That’s what was weird about it, because he didn’t want to like, push beyond that bushel. Cause you just didn’t know.
[00:21:17] Like I was like, ah, I’m not ready to, to, to push into any unknown yet because I’m scared of him. Sure.
[00:21:25] Matt Rock: [00:21:25] I’d like to try that one again. You know, I think I can shave a couple of minutes off of that. So, but yeah, just to do that without motivation,
[00:21:33] Rich Ryan: [00:21:33] it just took so long. It was like,
[00:21:35] Matt Rock: [00:21:35] Oh my gosh.
[00:21:36] Rich Ryan: [00:21:36] A really long time to do it.
[00:21:39] Yeah. Something like that. but yeah, and that could be part of it, right? Like you kind of came into the sport much. Wait, I didn’t realize it was you weren’t really being competitive until like early thirties. which is a really cool story in itself. Cause I feel like where people are coming into obstacle course racing is along those same lines.
[00:21:55] Right? It’s like they’ve done something their whole lives. And now that they’re looking for some other type of competitive outlet and, and this just kind of meshes well, A lot
[00:22:04] Matt Rock: [00:22:04] of
[00:22:05] Rich Ryan: [00:22:05] people do currently, maybe they did some ball sports. Maybe they did some, some gym stuff. And now it’s like, okay, let me get into this.
[00:22:10] And so a lot of times people are running for the first time when they are, early thirties, mid thirties, early forties. How did you start to progress? And improve, like from that moment after you ran that half.
[00:22:23] Matt Rock: [00:22:23] So then we went through a full marathon, it feels like he’s like I’m going to do a full marathon.
[00:22:28] And he doesn’t. So I had to do one and I’ve only done one marathon in my life. And I think that’s kind of what kickstarted my journey into ultra running. And I wouldn’t say it was a huge journey. I think. I train on the roads for this run. Me and my buddy were here and we’re like, we should do this, run up in big sky Montana, which is a ski resort.
[00:22:53] So this was completely foreign to me having done just road stuff at this point. So we’re thinking, Oh, this might be kind of fun. We’re running through mountains instead of road. And it was called the rut 50 K I don’t know if you’ve heard of that run went on for about six years, but it’s. It’s gotta be one of the toughest stuff, 50 Ks in the nation.
[00:23:13]I think it’s on the sky running world series circuit the first, well, the first year I did it, Kelly and Jordan EY came down and compete in the sky runner series. And it’s put on by a couple of ultra runners from Montana, Mike Foote and Mike Wolf. And so they’re, they’re pretty accomplished the ultra runners.
[00:23:33] And, so me and my buddy were like, we should try this run. And basically we just trained on road and we started to learn a little bit more and we were putting in. A little more miles per week. I think we’d start to figure out, all right, my body can handle, you know, 65 miles a week and that might’ve been around our peak 65 or 70 a week.
[00:23:53] And then we’d take her back. I mean, we, we started to learn a few things about what we should do training wise and, but yeah, so we, we got into this race and it just kicked our ass. I mean, I just felt, I felt like I was very fit, probably the most fit I’ve ever been. And then you look at some of the times of the winners and you’re like an hour behind.
[00:24:13] I like . I mean, looking at now, if that’s not, not a huge thing to get that far behind the guy like that, but, that’s just kinda what, kick-started it? No, I started learning a little more. and then from there, I think the though, so far the longest run I’ve done is 52. For a nice,
[00:24:34] Rich Ryan: [00:24:34] it comes to like the weekly mileage getting into the sixties and seventies.
[00:24:37] It’s a lot, you know, that’s a lot, even for, someone running at a high level, like my collegiate program, I don’t think I did even much more than that, you know, division one running programs and coming from. Like little experience and endurance training. Was it just intuitive for you or what was like the hardest part about building that mileage at that point?
[00:24:57] From what you remember? And did you just feel confident like this is what I need to do to get better or, because I think a lot of times people aren’t sure where to balance, the volume versus intensity. So do you remember?
[00:25:08] Matt Rock: [00:25:08] Yeah, well, I was able to have, I just move up in like 10% increments and. We had a plan drawn out for us, my brother and I for a 50 K.
[00:25:19] And it was kind of a roller coaster of miles for the week. You know, we we’d build up and then drop back and then build back up a little higher drop back. And then by race week, you build up toward, you know, I think it was like three weeks prior to the race. You build up to your highest mileage and then kind of really paperback.
[00:25:38] So by the time you’re ready for the race. Your body would actually be expecting something big or the time you’re you’re racing. And in my early thirties, it actually felt right. You know, back then I felt like, wow, this is somebody did some thinking behind this plan because my body feels ready to rock and I’ve put in a lot of miles, but I just, I felt my legs and my bone structure just to kind of start to formulate.
[00:26:07] What they needed to adapt to, to take on that mileage and, And it worked out pretty good. And now I feel like as I’m aging, I suppose I’m 40 now. I feel like I do have to dial the volume back quite a bit. Like I don’t, I don’t know if I could do a 60 mile week right now at all, or I’d have to really take some, some time off.
[00:26:29] If, if afterward, if I did
[00:26:32] Rich Ryan: [00:26:32] recovery standpoint, like you’ll just energy will be low
[00:26:35] Matt Rock: [00:26:35] more just what my. My body structure could handle it. Yeah. And what I would say the difference between between 30 and 40 is about a week, you know, as far as recovery. And I do feel that I feel like I can still put in those up those hard efforts.
[00:26:52] I can, I can still perform at a pretty high, high level, but I, I really can’t get out back at it two days later. Yeah. I just need to give myself that
[00:27:03] Rich Ryan: [00:27:03] time. Yeah. And I mean, as long as you’re not pushing it, like pushing the pedal each time. Yeah. Smart to be able to like listen to yourself, but I am, I’m impressed that you just kind of work yourself into 60 and 75 miles, 60, 70 mile weeks, just,
[00:27:17]
[00:27:17] Just by like, figuring out like, this is what we need to do.
[00:27:20]and was that when, when you, when you took that on, was that in order to be competitive with the field or was that something that you felt like you just needed to do to be happy and, and with your efforts and with like your training?
[00:27:34] Matt Rock: [00:27:34] Oh, no. I mean, I definitely wanted to be competitive. I mean, that’s, that’s what I.
[00:27:39] What I kind of got into, competitive running for is it’s like, I want, I want to get in there and actually see what I can do with these top runners. And in, in those local races, I would do relatively well. I mean, I’d, I’d come in typically top three in most of those road races. And in my mind, when I signed up for the ride, I’m thinking, Oh man, I’m going to, I’m going to kick everyone’s ass.
[00:28:00] I mean, cause I, I enjoyed running on the Hills and the mountains more. So I was thinking this will get to meet my thing and I get out of there and I just feel like, get my ass kicked, but, but then you learn. What kind of competition is that a race like that? And you’re like, okay, these guys do it for living.
[00:28:17] A lot of these guys aren’t even from this country, they came and they flew in for this race. And so it makes it feel a little bit better. But, yeah, I mean, right away in your early thirties, I felt like I could just take on anything when I trained for that first marathon. I think I just jumped right into a six week plan.
[00:28:36] Yeah, it was a six week plan. And before that I was just running my, you know, 6.2 miles on the treadmill per plan. This gal that Phil knew in Seattle, she’s sponsored by Brooks. She drew me of a plan for six weeks and I felt like it was enough to. Work myself into the 26, two distance. And, I don’t think I can do that right now.
[00:28:59] Takes a little more time.
[00:29:01] Rich Ryan: [00:29:01] Yeah, that’s for sure. It’s six weeks even then for anybody is probably not at that. Probably not enough. But when you would look at the competition this way, would you look at them as runners or were you just looking at them? Like, I don’t really care who those people are. I’m I’m I’m on that level of an athlete in a competitive sense.
[00:29:18] So like, I need to figure out what I can do to then compete with them. Or how did you look at the competition? Because that’s something, it seems like it’s something that did drive
[00:29:27] Matt Rock: [00:29:27] you. Yeah. It, it kinda, it kind of started, started like that, where I would look at everyone the same and, and just be like, all right, let’s see what I can do.
[00:29:37] Let’s, let’s see how I fall in, in, in this mix, you know, throw myself in there and see where I land. And then after a while you kind of. You get to the starting line, you look around and you start sizing people up. And so you’d pick out a couple of guys and you’d be like, Oh, he looks like a runner. So I’m going to try to stick with him, or I’m going to, I know who he is because you know, a buddy of mine over here said, all right, this guy runs cross country here for the college.
[00:30:02] So I’m going to see what I can do to keep up with him. So yeah, I would, I would actually pick people out and zero in on them. And, you know, I, I think like anyone I learned what you have to do as far as each distance. So you can’t just run out and sprint. a half marathon or a marathon, you got to pace yourself.
[00:30:17] And so after a while, I started to get that down where, I would actually enjoy the fact that I can, could tow the line with a bunch of young guys. Hmm. And I knew they were gonna just fly out ahead of me. And I, I just enjoyed being a rabbit Hunter and picking them off one by one. And I kind of feel like that’s more of my approach in OCR right now.
[00:30:45] Is I, I just can’t, I can’t get out there and just burn the inches hot right away. I have to start off at my pace and it’s got to pick up halfway into the race when my body’s actually warmed up seasoned a little bit. At that point, I can start keeping a more consistent pace. And as the race it goes on, I feel like I can pick it up a little bit.
[00:31:05] So.
[00:31:06] Rich Ryan: [00:31:06] That’s probably the better way to do it. It feels like a lot of times in these Spartan races in particular, that everybody just goes out hot and then wherever you are halfway through, that’s just kind of how you finish because everyone is just dead. Then
[00:31:19] Matt Rock: [00:31:19] I feel like after about the first mile, you start to land about where you’re going to be, you know, give or take a couple mistakes.
[00:31:26] Rich Ryan: [00:31:26] Right. And that’s, I found the same and that’s why it’s hard sometimes for me anyway, to, to not go with the front packer, with, or with the people who I want to be with. Because like, well, I know from experience that usually don’t pick up space later on, so it’s okay. It definitely takes some discipline on your end to be like, okay, let’s let’s chill.
[00:31:46] I know witnesses. I know I can. I know I will get there when it’s time. And did, did ultra just kind of transitioned fairly, Seamlessly into OCR. Like how did that start?
[00:31:58] Matt Rock: [00:31:58] Yeah. you know, my body type, isn’t really designed to be a runner. I mean, if you look at my body versus some of those college cross-country athletes, I mean, I’m, I’m kind of like a muscle lump, more so than them and they’re tall, skinny slender.
[00:32:14] They have this, just the ability to just maintain a good pace on that track. And I just felt like it was okay. A big effort for me to try to do that. And so when I thought about trail running and running with obstacles, I was thinking, well, that might be a little more up my alley. And, so it was funny.
[00:32:33]got a quick story about how I first started getting into Spartan is my wife and her brother. They wanted to do a Spartan race and, they were like, Oh, it’s up in big fork Montana. And at that point I had never heard a Spartan race. I was just into ultras. I was like, well, That might be a fun family trip.
[00:32:51] I’ll go up there. And if I’m going to go up there, I might as well sign up and there’s race. And, so I signed up for the race, you know, long story short, I ended up getting a really bad cast. The injury that year, this was back in 2016, really bad calf injury. I felt it for like 17 months. And so, it, it kind of triggered in that race because I was it, I had this injury going on and it wasn’t completely healed.
[00:33:16] So I. I ended up getting up to big fork, towing the line and getting like 50 yards into the race. And I felt something pop in my calf. And I was, I was done for months after that. But anyway, so I’m sitting there big fork and injured, got ice on my leg, bunch of ibuprofen down in I’m watching this race. And, they had a very set up very well for spectators on this particular course.
[00:33:43] And I think it was one of those big, national series races back in Montana in 2016. And I just remember seeing these guys like, just bomb and through the trees and just. I was I’m drooling. Cause I wanted to be out there running with them and doing what they’re doing. And I just remember thinking, this looks fun.
[00:34:01] I got to try this. And so I’m right at the finish line and I’m watching on this, on this last mile or last quarter mile on this course, they ended up doing a bucket carry. And so we’re, we’re all sitting there at the finish line, all these spectators and hundreds of us. And we’re watching these guys.
[00:34:20] Bombed down the Hill, pick up buckets and go up and down and right on the finish. And so it just looked a lot more fun than a normal road race. And, so I was watching the finish line and all of a sudden, there’s this group of girls to my left and all of a sudden I hear this girl holler. Oh my God. I look over to this group of girls.
[00:34:44] Jaws just dropped their glasses, their sunglasses come up and they’re looking up at this Hill and they’re all just drooling that this dude just bombing down the Hill. And so I look over and I see, I see him coming down the Hill and everyone was just cheering them on. And, I was just like, this is a bad ass sport.
[00:35:04] I gotta, I got to try my hand in this. I got to heal up. And at that point, I was just motivated. To heal back up and give this a shot because I was, I knew it was just going to be a lot more suited for my body type and in what I was able to do.
[00:35:17] Rich Ryan: [00:35:17] And just your mentality, right? Like you just got there, you knew like, Oh, this is.
[00:35:22] Like the excitement you feel when you see something that, you know, you’re going to like is like, it makes it obvious, like, Oh, okay. Like this is where I kind of along watching the trailer. I was like, he probably would have felt something similar to that, but seeing something new and being like, Oh, there’s different elements that I could really sink my teeth into.
[00:35:39] And then, and then from there, I mean, you’ve made. Really fantastic progress. Like getting, like working your way up through the ranks. And, you know, we mentioned you got into running a little bit later in life and then, you know, Spartan even a little bit further still. And one thing that I am fascinated by you is that like you do have, I have a family and a full time job, and you’re still able to, you know, run with the best.
[00:36:02] You had several podiums last year, you finished second in the mountain series, right? Like, so like you go after these things and you do really well. So. And this is something that I have a hard time relating to people with. And, you know, if there’s athletes that I coach, I have kids and work full time jobs and just like, ah, let me just kind of just kind of do what you can.
[00:36:21] So like what, what are some of the biggest challenges for you in your training, to maintain such a high level of it and like how does affect like your day to day?
[00:36:31] Matt Rock: [00:36:31] Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s funny when I started doing more racism. I was, I would kind of surprise myself where I would come in on these races, because it is, it’s, it’s tough to get into the proper amount of miles that you feel like you need to give your body because you’re still coming home.
[00:36:50] And you got the rest of the day after work with the kids and you, you feel tired and drained and you still got to get your run in. And so what I found is, I mean, first of all, I think having that outlet. And raising a family is essential. Cause I’ve, I’ve tried seasons in my life where I’m not doing anything.
[00:37:11] You know, you just don’t have anything extra going for you that where you, you have that outlet. And I’ve, I felt more tired, you know, just drained. And so having this, I would come home. A lot more energized for my kids, because I mean, that’s sometimes you get home from a long day at work and the work actually just starts when you got four kids, daddy, daddy, daddy is home and jumping on your back and Hey dad, can we do this?
[00:37:37] Can we do that? And yeah. You know, unless you have, I have that outlet, I don’t think you’re going to have the energy to handle that. Also. I just started getting more of a routine of if, if I’m going to get my workout in, it’s gotta be in the morning. Got to do that in the morning. And to me, that just kind of kick started the rest of the day.
[00:37:55] And if I didn’t get my workout in, I felt drained and exhausted. And so it’s kind of like the more, the better. Hmm. You know, it seems counterintuitive, but no, I mean, that’s, that’s the way it worked. And, just, just like you said, I mean, seeing my relative success in the sport, I mean, it’s all relative, right.
[00:38:16] You compare yourself to somebody else and say, wow, I suck. Yeah. Yeah. You
[00:38:20] Rich Ryan: [00:38:20] always want, you always want to do better, but like from the outside, you know, even just, and your athletes. Cause I thought you had a bit more of a progression from like working your way. Up into the ranks and you have had some, but it was more like you were finishing six and now you’re finishing like first.
[00:38:37] Okay. Second and third. So like, there was a little bit of improvement there, but, and it takes a little bit more, but you kind of came in and you were kind of kicking ass right away. and it’s interesting, you said that, that, cause I have some friends now who are like new dads and they’re. They kind of echo the same thing, but like nobody likes it when I don’t get a chance to run.
[00:38:54] So like yeah, right. Like that. And then it changes the entire dynamic. I’m sure, as, as I would imagine, the dynamic has already shifted quite a bit, bringing a family and, and kids into the, into the mix.
[00:39:08] Matt Rock: [00:39:08] And part of it is, I kind of see it all as, what I’m doing with my life. I kind of want my kids to see it as a metaphor of what I want them.
[00:39:16] To do in their, like, I’m not saying I want them to do what I do, but a passion I put into something. I want them to see that I’m just not floating around in life aimlessly that I have a focus and I have a goal in when I do have a focus in a goal. I’m not just you gonna give it half-ass effort. I’m not, I’m just going to say, Oh, you know, let’s give this a try and see what happens.
[00:39:39] So like, no, I’m going to, I’m going to grab this Dean by the balls. And squeeze it as hard as I can and go after it. And, you know, I don’t know what my kids are going to get into. I mean, right now they’re, they’re not into competitive sports. I mean, you know, most kids, they think running sucks, so I’m just showing them whatever you get into, I’m going to support you and go after it full, full force.
[00:40:04] Don’t just go and just be a half ass.
[00:40:07] Rich Ryan: [00:40:07] Yeah, right. Cause that’s something that feel like, I mean, I don’t know, but what can I, what I would imagine, like from a child’s perspective, even if they went to the races and if you fit it in, like, if you did say you have asked it and you finished 20th, they’d probably still be like, wow, what dad did was great, you know?
[00:40:22] Right. But the whole entire package and the whole mindset that you have around it and putting everything forward. I mean, that’s also kind of going to bleed down to them as well. And I hear, I hear this quite a bit. Like a lot of times when there are, are parents who are looking to train. You know, the kids come up.
[00:40:39] It’s like, I just, I want to be a good example. I want to be able to show them what healthy lifestyle is. And, and along the lines, like what it’s like to actually have focus and dedication towards something. are you verbalizing this as well? Or are you just kind of living as an example and like making, like, imagine they’re soaking up everything that you’re doing?
[00:40:56] Like, is there a push and pull with that or is it like, how do you approach?
[00:41:01] Matt Rock: [00:41:01] No, there’s, it’s definitely both. I definitely tell them. It’s like a, Hey guys. I’m okay. I mean, I’m not, I’m not the youngest guy out there, but I’m, I’m, I’ll tell you what I’m going to do is I’m going to work my ass off and I’m going to get to this race prepared.
[00:41:16] And I tell them what it means to be prepared. I tell them, I don’t just sign up for a race, go through my normal daily routine, show up to the race and see what happens. I mean, they know I’m getting up early and I tell them live. Live your life presently. I mean, you’re not sometimes I think we all have this tendency to say, all right, when, when we get there, it’s going to be, it’s going to be a fun, you know, let’s, let’s, let’s just, coast until we get the, you know, sometimes we where we’re all just like floating around and we have these goals and we think, all right, when we get there, it’s going to be good.
[00:41:56] What if we live our life presently and say, all right, let’s, let’s actually be great now during the training. And then when we get there, when we actually get to the thing we’re working for is going to be that much better. And so, like, I, I, I definitely verbalize that to them. Like, don’t, don’t just, don’t just look at it and think, Oh, that’s going to be cool.
[00:42:16] No, you actually have to work at things to do your best. And sometimes, sometimes people tend to have a natural talent. They don’t have to work at something. I feel like I do. I, I feel like I’ve always been just like a scrapper. I, I, you know, I, I want to be the best I can at something. And I want, sometimes I just feel like I want to be the best at something.
[00:42:37] And you know, that if that natural ability isn’t there. You’re going to have to get up early and put in the time and, and do the work to actually become the best that you can. And, it’s been, it’s been definitely cool to see, where I’ve fallen in, in the OCR world. I mean, it’s definitely a time commitment, you know, a lot of, a little more travel, but like you said, I mean, there’s, there’s so many, so many positives with that meeting people from out of, out of state, out of country and just the group of friends that we’ve.
[00:43:07] I’ve gained from that is phenomenal.
[00:43:11] Rich Ryan: [00:43:11] And, and th the one message, it seems that you want to make clear is that the, the process, right. And like what you said about like, being mindful, it’s like, okay, let’s focus on the process to get to where we’re going, as opposed to just like the outcome that we’re hoping to achieve at the end there.
[00:43:31] And is that something that was instilled in you, like at a young age, or did you come across this from something like an endurance sport where. The process is so important like that you will never get the outcome if you don’t engage in the process day to day. what’s that been like for you? Like how did you come to come to that realization?
[00:43:50] Matt Rock: [00:43:50] Yeah, I mean, it was definitely something that was instilled with me. My, my dad was always one to, to talk about hard work, getting new things. And, so when I started doing, Endurance running. I just kind of learned that thing for myself. You know how sometimes as kids, you can, you can be told something over and over and over and over, and it’s not really going to, Sink into your head until you live it.
[00:44:13] Like
[00:44:14] Rich Ryan: [00:44:14] you never see it, feel it. And it’s like, okay, whatever. Yeah.
[00:44:18] Matt Rock: [00:44:18] Yeah. It’s kinda, it’s kinda like a, every generation I feel has to learn things for themselves because I feel that as a parent now, I mean, I can tell my kids things over and over and over and. They’re going to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they don’t really get it.
[00:44:34] You see it gloss over their eyes and they just don’t get things until they actually experience that and live that and get to that age. It’s kind of like, we don’t really learn from our parents’ mistakes. You know, we, we challenge that. We, we see that they make mistakes and they tell them, don’t do this or else.
[00:44:54] But we just continue to challenge it. And until we actually live that and see the failures and the mistakes, I don’t think we’re going to, actually learn from that. So, yeah, it’s, it’s been one of those things. I think I’ve kind of learned as I’ve gotten into the sport that you’re not going to do.
[00:45:09] You’re not going to be your best unless you work at it. And I’ve been, I do enjoy the process. I mean, it sucks getting up early sometimes and putting in the miles and training. In the, you know, riding that razor edge of, of overwork versus the right volume. And it’s, it’s a fun process and it’s difficult, but I, I truly enjoy it now.
[00:45:30] It’s just kind of comes second nature and
[00:45:35] Rich Ryan: [00:45:35] yeah, once it’s in the routine of things, it’s just, yeah, this is just how I live.
[00:45:40] Matt Rock: [00:45:40] I get up an hour early so I can do the workout and let’s do it.
[00:45:45] Rich Ryan: [00:45:45] We do a podcast, and. It’s an interesting thing. And I think that it’s something that we can all relate to is like, even as I’m sure as some parents, as a child, like being able to kind of brush off the things that you’re telling that your parents are telling you, or that things that you’re telling your kids, are they doing that to you when you kind of like push it?
[00:46:04] When you’re like, process, like get out here to be the best hard work comes first. Are they like sure thing, dad, I just saw you. You just do, you’re just yourself. And I see you do so well. And these things are, they like. Are they brushing you off? Or are they at that age where you can tell that? Or how was that?
[00:46:19] Like,
[00:46:20] Matt Rock: [00:46:20] it’s funny with, with, with kids. I feel late. They hear you. I mean, you can, you can see it going into their, their head, but they just, they, I don’t think they quite have the capacity to compute what it means yet, because I mean, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll tell them. All right, guys, I want you to mow the lawn today.
[00:46:41] And they, they know they have to, they know there’s no way around it. I mean, they’re going to have to mow the lawn, but they still throw a huge fit about molding the lawn. And so, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s almost like it, it goes into their head, but until it really gets developed and marinated into their minds, it’s not going to stick.
[00:47:02] And I think sometimes that takes years. I look at my life and I remember, you know, I was taught certain things and this and that. And I really didn’t understand what they were saying until probably into my thirties, even. I think I’m still growing up. I kind of sometimes still feel like I’m a kid, you know, when you hang around older people, I mean, you still feel like there’s a lot of maturity that needs to happen.
[00:47:29] So I’m in, you know, and it’s funny because I feel like I’m pretty good at observing that. And so when my kids mess up or they’re. Throwing a fit or whatever. It allows me to have a little more grace toward them because I know their, I know how their brains are working. So, so I’m, yeah, I’m being patient with the process with them.
[00:47:48] Rich Ryan: [00:47:48] Process first and, and you’re right. Yeah. I feel the same thing. Like if I could go back and know what I mean, then, you know, it’s like the trope of what I, if I could tell myself, give myself advice on, on what it means to work hard or what it means to have goals or, or how to get the things that you want in life.
[00:48:07] You’d be like, Oh, that would’ve been great to know, but yeah. Yeah.
[00:48:11] Matt Rock: [00:48:11] So right now, I think the best way to do is to show them. Cause like I said, you can tell them all over and over and over. But if I, if I, if I, I can just show them and be the example, then I’m not, not a hypocrite. And then at least it’s going to sink and land.
[00:48:27] Even if it takes years and years, at least they’re going to see what it’s like. Right. For the example,
[00:48:34] Rich Ryan: [00:48:34] there’s there’s action that bought it. This is my message. And here is how I’m presenting myself to the world where if it was the opposite, where if you just maybe couldn’t prioritize your training or it wasn’t important to you, but you would still be like hard work, this and that.
[00:48:49] And it just didn’t ever really show up. I feel like there would be a disconnect from like, like again, like you said, I don’t think they would have time to marinate. With, but I feel like they would be able to see it and be like, There’s some kind of bullshit going on here. It’s like having the message and having the follow-through
[00:49:07] Matt Rock: [00:49:07] is crucial.
[00:49:09] Yup. Yeah. Either if it’s less the one specific moment in the future in time where like, wow. You know, I guess my dad was right, even though I heard him say it 40,000 times. I guess he really was because now I’ve experienced what it’s like to not work at something. And then you see, you see the failure. And so I guess I will have to work at it.
[00:49:32] So, you know, he did it. So why can’t I.
[00:49:35] Rich Ryan: [00:49:35] Yeah. And what’s also interesting is I was just thinking about this one. Talking is like, if your kids, for whatever endeavor they pick up, like if they end up just being talented, whereas on your end, you were self proclaimed, like a grinder, right? Like you want it to put your nose down and work like, then that has to be a hard.
[00:49:55] Like lines across too, because I mean, this is, that’s what creates the best of the best. I mean, I think of like professional athletes who are the best at their profession, they’re the talented also have that work ethic. Yeah. It’s hard to kind of connect that. Do you worry about that? That they’re going, it’s going to be really good at something and they’re just like
[00:50:14] Matt Rock: [00:50:14] out for work at it.
[00:50:15] Yeah. If that’s the case, then you just had the genetic lottery and that’s great,
[00:50:20] Rich Ryan: [00:50:20] but it wouldn’t catch up, you know, you might get to the point, get to a certain level and never have that message that you’re delivering. And until it’s like,
[00:50:29] Matt Rock: [00:50:29] yeah, I think for a lot of peoples is it’s actually finding that one thing that they want to be passionate about, you know, because obviously not, everybody’s going to.
[00:50:38] Be into obstacle course racing, that they’re just not genetically wired for that. And so, you know, I think there’s so many people out there. They’re just wondering what their thing is. And so that’s, you know, as a parent trying to try to tell my kids, just do what you want to do. I don’t even think sometimes they know what they want to do.
[00:50:58] You know, it’s just having to live life. So at least you’re showing them a way, you know, not the thing you’re showing them a thing that you can do not be thing. And, you know, like I said, I mean, well, a lot of, you know, a lot of guys that they, they got into this sport later in life in their early mid thirties.
[00:51:17] And you just realized, gosh, I love this. It’s a fun thing. I mean, I know it’s not going to be a, a career for me, but as far as just what I’m doing with it now, it’s, it’s a phenomenal outlet and I enjoy it so much. I’m going to continue doing it. And so if this is my way of showing my kids what it’s like to work at, something that you love, it’s perfect.
[00:51:40] It’s a perfect time. And they, they, they see it, they come to the, come to these races and watch and, and, you know, you get to that spectator gauntlet and then you see your four kids running down the Hill, you know, following you. It’s just, I mean, there’s nothing greater and. Yeah, it’s just awesome. Just like
[00:52:01] Rich Ryan: [00:52:01] realizing that and like, thinking about it.
[00:52:03] It gave me chills. I was like, yeah, big smile on face. Give me such a cool thing. Just to pay off
[00:52:10] Matt Rock: [00:52:10] later, you’ll pick up sticks and throw them like their Spears and big rock and start hauling it up the Hill
[00:52:21] Rich Ryan: [00:52:21] better next time. And that’s the way that things have like. Kind of come to fruition manifest in like the thing that you’re saying, like everybody has their thing. Right. And like, whatever it is, and you need to find that and obstacle course racing it’s new. So like, it hasn’t always been like your thing, right?
[00:52:40] Like. And I feel like no matter what someone picks up there, something like an underlying thing, like that could translate across the board. Right? Like, so you were into, you got into competitive running then like ultra running and now OCR. So like what, what would you consider like your thing to be and that you want to like, kind of present to your kids?
[00:52:58] It’s not just like the end, cause again, that’s kind of outcome, right? Like my thing is. XYZ, but I do it in terms of obstacle course racing. Does that make sense?
[00:53:09] Matt Rock: [00:53:09] Yeah. Yeah. You know, the, gosh, that’s a difficult question. Cause I, I feel like, you know, looking back on your life and your early twenties, I feel like I’ve gone through, you know, you go through a different phase about every, you know, four to five years.
[00:53:22]back back when I was 19 to 23, 24, I was really into snowboarding. And I mean, that was, that was my thing, you know, quote, unquote my thing back then. And so. Through my life. I’ve, I’ve always been trying to what my thing is, you know, my outlet. And, I always wanted to be really, really, really good at something.
[00:53:42] And I feel like I was always just riding the line between being the best and, you know, just, just underneath, you know, what some of these guys that you’re seeing on the X games or the Olympics, I was just right underneath where they were. And I don’t know if that had to do with their just basic opportunities.
[00:54:01] You know, they, that they have versus what I was doing. but yeah. Then after you get a little older and you just quite can’t handle the huge impact of the jumps that you’re doing on a snowboard, so you transition into something else. And then so road running as opposed, or just getting fit was my thing for another four or five years, and then got into ultra running.
[00:54:24] And, now obstacle course running, but yeah, you see like this four to five year. Increments in your life where your thing kind of changes. So what, what’s it going to be next? I don’t know. you know, it’s a really good question.
[00:54:37] Rich Ryan: [00:54:37] What do you think it’s, what do you think it is? Cause like, it sounds like you just took your, your focus more or less from snowboarding and then have just moved it into these different avenues.
[00:54:47] Like, what is the thing that’s underneath that you think? Is it just like the willingness to work? To be bad. And then to then get good or is there a part of like all the things that you’re doing, they have some sort of is a goal, like extreme end to it?
[00:55:04] Matt Rock: [00:55:04] yeah, I think with what I’ve been into, it tends to have somewhat of a physical aspect to it.
[00:55:09]I think maybe because, you know, relative to who I am, I guess I’m better at that then. You know, say sitting down and write writing a philosophy philosophical book, but the thoughts in my head, I would tend to maybe reflect more of who my, who I am through that aspect of my life. And I guess the, yeah, that’s kind of what drives me that I think people are created to do something.
[00:55:37] With their minds. And, and even if it’s something physical, you’re putting your full mind and emotion into it. And I think without that, I’ve actually been in seasons of my life where if I’m getting through an injury or whatever, it’s kind of a depressing time, you know? And when you. Mentally you want to get out there and you want to work at something you want to work towards something to get better, but there’s that one little thing that’s actually limiting you from doing that.
[00:56:08] And so even if it’s like just three, four weeks or even just a couple of days where you can’t get up in the morning and do something to better yourself toward an end, it’s, it’s a very depressing thing. And so you sit back and think, well, I think humans are actually. Created to do something to be, you know, to re to reflect something great.
[00:56:32] And I think, I think all individuals have that and they have that inner desire to get that, to find that. And, I know that this has been the, you know, the thing that’s really helped me is OCR and athletics. but I think everyone needs to find their thing or that thing that drives them. It’s very important.
[00:56:53] I mean, do you find that too?
[00:56:55] Rich Ryan: [00:56:55] Like, yeah, I really completely in the physical aspect is very much something I relate to is like it, like, whatever I’m creating comes from like a physical expression or even at one point, I, I, I recognize this about myself, maybe. Two three years ago. And I was like, Hey, I want to start something that is not physical because that’s kind of, I’m drawn to a, two’s like, Oh, maybe I’ll start doing jujitsu.
[00:57:18] It’s like, now it’s physical. Maybe I’ll start rock climbing. That’s physical. You know, it’s like, everything is it’s like, and trying to figure out someone’s like, maybe I’ll play piano. I’m just like, nah. Yeah. So I, I totally, and I liked the way you put that in and. And I don’t know if I’ve ever thought about it in terms of purpose and having something driving.
[00:57:35] But I do relate heavily when in a connected to things about just a feeling of an injury or the feeling of not being able to do something. And even just like, if I have to take a, if I have to take an unplanned day off or like two days off, like, Yeah, physically and emotionally, I’m just not right. And I don’t know if it is just a chemical thing or if it is just a, a purpose thing that is making you feel that way.
[00:58:01] Matt Rock: [00:58:01] Right, right. Yep. I know. I mean, you know, having kids, I mean, being a dad right now, I mean, just kind of linking this all together as a. Right now I can, I can use what I’m doing to show them as the example like we talked about, but if that is ever to go away, I mean, if I were to ever have a career, a season ending or career ending injury, my purpose is still there for them.
[00:58:29] And I’ve, I’m going to utilize what I have now to show them. How to do it and, you know, God willing continue to do it. but yeah, that’s always going to be there, you know, to be at, to be a dad. I mean, kids need guidance is basically a and human being popping into the world with a, I guess, a lack of better terms, an empty mind blank slate.
[00:58:51] And you want to show them how to fill it. Hmm.
[00:58:57] Rich Ryan: [00:58:57] Yeah. And like I said, you had that thing that moves from place to place. That’s the thing that you can help fill that. Yeah. Whatever the, whatever it is that they do, if it is piano, if it is something else.
[00:59:08] Matt Rock: [00:59:08] Yeah. And I’m, I’m really in tune to what they’re into right now.
[00:59:11] I mean, that’s one of my focuses as a, as a dad is, is looking at my kids and finding out what they’re into so I can drop little hints of encouragement and say, Hey, I noticed you’ve been doing this. And do you like doing that? And just encourage them along the way and offer what I can to help them get better.
[00:59:29] And keep going that path.
[00:59:32] Rich Ryan: [00:59:32] Right. And if that’s something you can relate to, that’s great. If not, you have that thing that you can, you can help them with. Yeah. Cool, man. I know you gotta get to work. but just real quick, what are some of the goals that you were thinking for this year? What are you, what are you doing now?
[00:59:45] Matt Rock: [00:59:45] Right now? Just kind of keeping myself fit. Like I said, I enjoy the process. I mean, I mean, whether we’re racing or not, No me and my buddies here in town, we get up early and we run and I’m, I’m still periodizing my, my workout structure. Once a week, I’m still getting into a real good heart he’ll session.
[01:00:03]I always like keeping up on my core strength. So is if, if they do a season this year, great. I’d like to sneak in a couple of races still. I don’t know. Have you heard much about what’s happening in August,
[01:00:16] Rich Ryan: [01:00:16] dude? I can’t imagine. It looks like West Virginia. Like the government there is going to kind of start cracking down.
[01:00:21] They haven’t canceled anything. Utah’s kinda the same way it looks like where it’s like, Hmm, this might not
[01:00:27] Matt Rock: [01:00:27] work. Yeah. Yeah. I just keep thinking that like they’re on the schedule. Like this is a hard schedule. Seem to have come out, but, I dunno, like if, I mean, if I do race, it’s going to be you to, I’ll probably be in a, it was a driving distance for me.
[01:00:40] So, I mean, I’ll probably do that. Bring a few of my kids down and, but yeah, we’ll see. I mean,
[01:00:47] Rich Ryan: [01:00:47] I haven’t heard anything, but just the feeling that I’m having about just how events are gonna be like in Philadelphia, they canceled all public. Gatherings
[01:00:55] Matt Rock: [01:00:55] until February everything really? Oh, man. Everything. Yeah.
[01:00:59] Rich Ryan: [01:00:59] Like how it’s not going to just, there’s not going to be one message across the board. I feel like we’re not product on a race until there’s a vaccine.
[01:01:05] Matt Rock: [01:01:05] Yeah. That’s a good thought right there,
[01:01:08] Rich Ryan: [01:01:08] but who the heck knows?
[01:01:10] Matt Rock: [01:01:10] Yeah. Yeah. You keep fit. Keep in shape. Just keep doing what we’re doing and. I mean, I’m having fun with it.
[01:01:19] Rich Ryan: [01:01:19] Yeah. Just keep the press Scalia. That’s how I’ve been. Almost like training harder, just cause I’m like, well, it’s cooler to be in shape than to not be in shape. I would rather not be in shape. Let’s just go pound it. There’s no racists.
[01:01:32] Matt Rock: [01:01:32] 40. I still feel like I’m making gains. I still feel like there’s a there’s that, that next workout that’s going to really push me over the edge.
[01:01:40] Yeah. It’s still there. It’s still there.
[01:01:43] Rich Ryan: [01:01:43] You are making gains, right? Like last year, big season for you. So,
[01:01:47] Matt Rock: [01:01:47] right. My best season was, when I was 40. I mean, I can always look back.
[01:01:52] Rich Ryan: [01:01:52] Oh yeah. And that’s what a lot of people are trying to do. They’re not, they’re not, they’re not capping there. Their abilities.
[01:01:59] They’re just want to quick. And you’re, you’re a shining example of that. So we thank you, man. We appreciate it. I appreciate you taking the time, getting up early, setting the record for earliest podcast ever. where can people find you? Is there a social or where
[01:02:12] Matt Rock: [01:02:12] Facebook and Insta? Matt rocks summit on Instagram and yeah, just Facebook still and, but yeah, reach out and be, be awesome to chat with you, whatever.
[01:02:21] That’s cool, man. I’m not a big name out there. I only have like four followers, so
[01:02:29] Rich Ryan: [01:02:29] willing and ready to chat. well, cool dude. I appreciate it. I thought this was great. I’m just going to press stop and we’ll hang on, but I’ll let you go here in a minute. So this is a signing off.
[01:02:37] Matt Rock: [01:02:37] We’ll talk to you soon.
[01:02:38] See you. Bye.
