Better Downhills, Faster Obstacles, and Improving yourself – Johnny Luna-Lima
Full Transcript
JLL
Rich Ryan: [00:00:00] This week on the ring forest running podcast, we have Johnny Luna, Lima. Johnny is an OCR athlete and a coach at a massive leap last year in the, on the performance side of things. And in the episode, we talk about everything that has really led him to this point as an athlete. And it includes how to progressively improve your downhill running.
[00:00:23] And we span on a lot of ranges here, speaking from his. His experience as an elite athlete and also from some of the athletes that, he’s has experienced working with so wide range of how you can progressively improve on those things. the best way of tackling their weaknesses and how you should approach development in your performance, and also about how your ego can really be the worst enemy that you’re facing in your training and performance.
[00:00:49] So there’s a ton of great insight. He’s an awesome athlete. Awesome guy. Really enjoyed the conversation. I think you’re really going to like it as well. And, I just want to say thank you again for listening. And if you like what you’re hearing jobless five stars, give us a shout for review. And you know, maybe we’ll read on the show this week.
[00:01:06] Our review of the week comes from front of the show and former guests, Nick Reichard. He gives us five stars, which is so nice. Thank you, Nick. That’s great. And the title, the review is rich and Josh, you know, that’s us. That’s AHMC it goes on, says you guys are some bros. Quote end quote,
[00:01:28] here’s Johnny Luna, Lima,
[00:01:35] Johnny Luna, Lima. What’s going on, man? How are you?
[00:01:37] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:01:37] Hey, how are you doing? Stuck to be on the show?
[00:01:40] Rich Ryan: [00:01:40] Yeah, for sure. I’m really excited that we made this happen and I’m excited to talk about. Some of, your, your training regimen and kind of how you approach things with your athletes and in terms of volume and, and recovery, and also new to the nutrition aspects we’re going to do.
[00:01:52] We’ll do the whole thing. But first my question to you is an easy one. What’s your favorite movie of all time?
[00:02:00] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:02:00] Oh, favorite movie? I’m pretty big into just, I guess, warm movies like lone survivor, American sniper. Those are pretty sweet, but then lately. Well, not too long ago, I watched the movie rush, the formula one movie.
[00:02:14] And that was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I was sitting on the couch of Hunter and he just put it on and I was like, this is the greatest movie ever.
[00:02:24] Rich Ryan: [00:02:24] So into this, it’s like a long, like I never thought I would like, movies like that or anything. That’s like high energy type of movies. But I recently, I recently saw, mad max fury road.
[00:02:35] Have you seen
[00:02:35] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:02:35] that one? No, never.
[00:02:37] Rich Ryan: [00:02:37] It’s unbelievable. It is so good. And I didn’t think I would like it at all, but I was blown away. So maybe, maybe that’s the next one you should check out.
[00:02:45] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:02:45] Yeah, I’ll take a look at that.
[00:02:48] Rich Ryan: [00:02:48] I never, I’ve never seen rush, so I’ll, I’ll do the same. I mean, we have time, so
[00:02:51] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:02:51] I really like rush because it just shows like the dynamic of like different athletes.
[00:02:56]so that’s pretty cool to see. Do
[00:02:59] Rich Ryan: [00:02:59] you think if you saw that before OCR, you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t get it. And now you’re an OCR athlete and you’re thinking about it in terms of an athlete
[00:03:06] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:03:06] or before OCR, I played soccer and like in soccer you have like the Playboys that love to party a ton. And just like there, they just play.
[00:03:14] And then you have like the other ones that take it super serious. And, Which is essentially what goes on and rush. You have like one dude, that’s just like doesn’t care. He only cares about partying and driving hard. And other dudes is like, drive really hard, know everything about everything. And. That’s it, nothing else,
[00:03:32] Rich Ryan: [00:03:32] isn’t it.
[00:03:32] And that’s such a, it’s so interesting that it’s that way. And there’s different ways to success and people might find success in any way that they, that they approach it. So it’s hard to take what any specific athlete does and emulate that because it, people will reach success in different paths.
[00:03:48] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:03:48] Oh yeah.
[00:03:48] And like certain success files are like, Just so hard to copy. Like if you go and just replicate another athlete’s training, like that can just destroy you within a month. And. Yeah.
[00:04:02] Rich Ryan: [00:04:02] Yeah. It doesn’t make any sense to do that. And that’s something I always warn people against is like, yeah, I saw this person posted this crazy workout, but they’ve also been doing crazy workouts like that for 10 years.
[00:04:14] So you trying to do something like that won’t make you better. It won’t make you like them. It’s probably going to get you hurt and just screw up your training pretty bad.
[00:04:22] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:04:22] Yeah, exactly.
[00:04:24]Rich Ryan: [00:04:24] so if you won $10,000 and you, but you only was, you had to spend it in one day. What would you buy? It’s not a ton of money, some money, but not a ton of money.
[00:04:35] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:04:35] Oh, I know what I’d get I’d fund a expedition to like Ecuador or like the Himalayas or something like that, and just climb a ton of mountains.
[00:04:43] Rich Ryan: [00:04:43] Do something. That’s the way to go. Just go on, on a trip.
[00:04:47] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:04:47] Yeah. Yeah. Cause that would buy a good chunk of your gear and your flights. Yeah. Yeah. I’d probably do.
[00:04:53] That
[00:04:54] Rich Ryan: [00:04:54] would be the way to go.
[00:04:55] Cause that gear is, would be a hangup, right. I’m sure you could rent it, but like, it would be nice to have it right.
[00:05:00] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:05:00] Oh
[00:05:00] yeah, definitely. having the gear is just huge. Cause it’s expensive stuff. Sorry. That’s that’s definitely the way I’d go about it. I mean, I’ve been thinking about taking a trip to Ecuador just to learn how to climb bigger, like big mountains for so long.
[00:05:18]so. If someone gave me 10 grand, it would be that I’d spend it so fast on that,
[00:05:23] Rich Ryan: [00:05:23] then you’re going, you already have it lined up. Yeah. Is that the, like, I don’t, I’m not a Mountaineer in any sense. Like I barely run them. I don’t have them that close to me, but like when you talk about climbing mountains in gear, Like, what is this running them like?
[00:05:36] So do you climb mountains in Colorado or are you mostly running trails?
[00:05:41]Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:05:41] I run a lot of trails and then I scramble a couple of times a week. So I live in Boulder. So we have just, we have the flat irons there. They’re just these massive, like rocks that just shut out, like from the mountains. And, a big thing in Boulder is scrambling.
[00:05:57] It’s essentially like easy climbing. But with no gear, you’re just essentially in like sticky running shoes or approach shoes and you just climb the rock and you go, and that’s something that I’ve been getting into a lot more lately. It’s just one of the, like, I’d love to like, just do it a ton, but like there’s a learning curve to it.
[00:06:17] And you just got to respect the mountains and it would just suck to be that guy that gets stuck on something really hard that he can’t
[00:06:25] Rich Ryan: [00:06:25] really suck.
[00:06:28] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:06:28] I mean, now that we’re getting into summer, I’m definitely gonna do more stuff up high, especially that I’m a good, I’m in a good place with my body and my training volume.
[00:06:39] Like it gives me some wiggle room to like, just go on like long mountain adventures. I have to worry about being destroyed for like a week. So I’ll start with definitely mixing in some like run climate Ridge line, run back type thing.
[00:06:54] Rich Ryan: [00:06:54] And when you do the scrambling, is it for more of like exploring and being out in nature and on the mountain?
[00:07:02] Or is there a physical benefit in like a training component to it?
[00:07:07]Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:07:07] well it’s definitely like first off, like you scrambled because you enjoy it. I wouldn’t recommend anyone to scramble because it’s good for fitness because it’s just like, it’s a high risk endeavor.
[00:07:16] Rich Ryan: [00:07:16] Do you don’t want to rush it?
[00:07:18] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:07:18] I’d say a high risk.
[00:07:19] Consequence, But like, yeah, I mean, I like throw it into the middle of my run sometimes, or like lately I’ve just been going out for hikes and I’m just scrambling and getting to know the mountains. but at some point I do want to integrate it into my training on a, just like a couple of times a week.
[00:07:40] But like, I’m not at the point yet with a flu, like I’m not fluid enough. over the rock that I could, Integrate it, just into training on a daily basis. Like, I just don’t know if rocks well enough yet.
[00:07:52] Rich Ryan: [00:07:52] Right. So you’d have this go pretty slow and be careful. And it wouldn’t be part of the run.
[00:07:56] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:07:56] Yeah.
[00:07:56] Like I’m still at the point that like, there’s some rocks I know off the back of my hand that I can get up super quick, but there’s a bunch of rocks that it’s like, You got to know the route and it’s, it’s funny because like, once you’re on the rock, if you’re on the route, it feels really good and it’s easy, but then if you’re on the wrong route, you look like a foot to your left and that’s where you’re supposed to be.
[00:08:19] But you can’t get there because it’s really messed up.
[00:08:25] Yeah. I think eventually, like it could be really good for training just depending on what your goals are. Like. I love, just being in the mountains and, I was supposed to do a bunch of sky races. There’s some technical terrain this year. So like that would have been great training for that. but, Yeah, races aren’t really happening right now,
[00:08:43] Rich Ryan: [00:08:43] just for fun,
[00:08:45] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:08:45] but it’s mainly it’s it’s for fun.
[00:08:47] And, it’s just what I love doing.
[00:08:50] And
[00:08:50] Rich Ryan: [00:08:50] the sky races, they would have a scramble sometimes,
[00:08:53] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:08:53] right? Yeah. Yeah. Like sometimes, like, it really depends on the sky race. Like there’s some iconic ones, like Trofeo Kima, Glencoe skyline, Trump. So sky race, like those, it’s like you’re on pretty gnarly terrain that, you could argue that it’s scrambling.
[00:09:11]so it’s just good to get as comfortable as possible on that train, because the worst is like when you’re just really tired on terrain that you’re not comfortable on at all. And that’s just like asking for, just. Bad things to happen.
[00:09:26] Rich Ryan: [00:09:26] Yeah. In the middle of a competition like that. If you don’t know.
[00:09:29] How to handle something like, even, like you said, if you’re on the wrong path and at least, you know, that you can navigate your way through it, but if you have no experience, that would not be a fun race to be in.
[00:09:41] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:09:41] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But more so, like, Skyrim has a big spectrum. Like you have like the super technical races where Charlie, the ones I named and then you have other ones that are less technical, but they’re just really steep on like, Like big bear terrain, I’d say, or, or like similar train to Tahoe.
[00:10:00]so they’re, they’re just like essentially like mountain running races, just like really steep mountain running races. And then I guess sky running is just a really cool name.
[00:10:08] Rich Ryan: [00:10:08] It’s a really cool name and that’s what is the, but they have to fall into like categories, right? Like got not every race that is.
[00:10:16] On a mountain can be a sky race. Doesn’t it have to be a certain elevation and like a certain grade or something? Or how does that work?
[00:10:22] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:10:22] Yeah, so, they have like this, They have like their little rules there that has to like cover a certain amount of elevation gain and a certain distance. So like, for example, like the VK, I guess, is the easiest to explain a VK is a vertical kilometer.
[00:10:37] So you climb a thousand meters and, less than five K. So that’s pretty much thousand meters is about 3,200 feet. So you got. That’s that’s one of the events and sky races. It’s I guess they’re short course. It’s just like all out uphill effort and, yeah, where you cover, like over 3000 feet in less than five K that’s super steep.
[00:11:00]so, but then they have the longer races to which they have like ultra sky races and, or sky marathons, whatever they call it. And those have like all sorts of wonky rules. Like it’s got to hit a lease. This altitude, or it’s got to have this much elevation gain in a certain amount of distance. Yeah.
[00:11:21] I’m not too well rounded in their roles
[00:11:25] Rich Ryan: [00:11:25] because it says, so it’s like, okay, I’ll go.
[00:11:28] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:11:28] Yeah, pretty much. But generally, like, I guess the biggest difference between, I guess what makes sky running sky running is just like the really technical terrain. it’s definitely more technical than like a lot of the U S mountain races.
[00:11:42] Rich Ryan: [00:11:42] And it seems like a way to. Maintain a level of like elite ability on something like that is because you can’t just create a Skyrise. It has to be on a specific mountain, to hit these qualifications. So it’s like, it just keeps it at like this very hard mountain race. So you can just run up to every penny Mount and be like, Hey, here’s the sky, here’s the sky race here in the Poconos.
[00:12:09] But like you can’t because it doesn’t meet those, that criteria. So. It’s it’s just like a, a snobby mountain race. That’s what it sounds like.
[00:12:18] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:12:18] Yeah. Yeah. That’s a, that’s a pretty good name for it or way to describe it. It’s snobby, not ranch. but then I dunno to me, they’re all mountain races and they’re all, they’re all as hard as you make them.
[00:12:30]because. Yeah. I mean,
[00:12:32] Rich Ryan: [00:12:32] yeah,
[00:12:34] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:12:34] mountains that scare me a lot more than like a technical mountain running.
[00:12:41] Rich Ryan: [00:12:41] Yeah. And that’s like, when people get all upset about like an obstacle course race, not having obstacles that are hard enough, it’s like, well, the race is whatever you want it to be. Like, you can put yourself in any position in any effort to make it really freaking hard.
[00:12:55] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:12:55] I mean, if you push hard enough, anything is going to be really hard. So, I guess what the person is looking for.
[00:13:03] Rich Ryan: [00:13:03] Right. Exactly. well, cool man, at a couple of the questions, but, we got on that stat sky race one. So we will double back later, but, tell, tell the people a little bit more about who you are and we got going on as an athlete and then as a coach here in OCR, Yeah.
[00:13:16]
[00:13:16] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:13:16] so my name is Johnny. I do the Spartan races and Oh, I guess OCR, but mainly Spartan races in the past couple of years. And, mountain running this year, I had the whole Spartan race series plan and the sky runner, most of the sky runner series, and possibly OCR world champs, but don’t think. Think those are really going to happen,
[00:13:39] Rich Ryan: [00:13:39] not looking great.
[00:13:41] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:13:41] And outside of a. Training myself. I coach people. I work with Ian Hosek, he’s my coach. And I’m also a coach under Postic performance engineering. What was that
[00:13:54] Rich Ryan: [00:13:54] hosted? pe.com. Check
[00:13:56] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:13:56] it out. I was like p.com. and yeah. That’s
[00:14:02] Rich Ryan: [00:14:02] for sure. And yeah, I want to dive in more about some of your specific training and your accomplishments for the people that might not be too familiar with you.
[00:14:09] I mean, you had, a couple of breakout performances last year, the national series taken home, a couple of W’s, which is awesome, but I also saw you just ran a really cool SKT. Was that over this past weekend,
[00:14:19] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:14:19] Yeah, it was this past. What is it? Was this past Thursday. I’m in Boulder. So I ran the Boulder skyline traverse.
[00:14:28] So in Boulder we have five it’s at five. Yeah. We have five peaks that like just are right next to town. You like, you can see them from town. and you essentially just gotta run the route from either direction, but you gotta tag each peak along the way. And the route is 17 miles and round 5,600 feet of climbing.
[00:14:54] Rich Ryan: [00:14:54] What’s the elevation is then what, like how high do you get?
[00:15:00] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:15:00] Yeah, so Boulder sits about. about 5,400 feet and the highest peak just right outside of Boulder is just under 9,000. I want to say, or like eight, five type thing. Oh, that might be wrong. I don’t know. yeah, about 9,000 feet, like between eight, five and nine.
[00:15:21]yeah.
[00:15:24] Rich Ryan: [00:15:24] And with, so the S F T it stands for fastest known time. It’s seemingly like a whole different world and people kind of know who each other are within this ask the different aspect of running, where it’s not necessarily racing because it’s on your own. Right. So you went out there and just, and just hit, which would essentially be like a Strava segment, but more like official right.
[00:15:46] And a little bit gnarlier typically
[00:15:47] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:15:47] right. Yeah. So like, I guess what makes an F Katie and Katie is that it’s gotta be like a pretty well known route. just, and it it’s gotta be a well trafficked. So I guess that’s the biggest difference between the SKT and Strava segments? like Strava segments, a lot of times, like people just make ’em and there’s like 50 people that live in a town and that’s the Strava segment.
[00:16:09]But then that’s, Katie’s like they generally like them to be just a lot more low traffic. Like, I don’t know, people that come to Boulder, like if they’re a trail runner, they generally want to run the skyline traverse. But I don’t know. There’s so much debate around that. if you guys really want to go into detail with it, I really recommend, Nicole miracle.
[00:16:26] She’s a real stickler about this.
[00:16:28]Rich Ryan: [00:16:28] what is she giving you? Grief?
[00:16:30] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:16:30] No, she’s just giving people grief from the past. I just think it’s funny, but, yeah, just like bombard her DMS.
[00:16:43]yeah.
[00:16:44] Rich Ryan: [00:16:44] And, and so it did, it does sound like it’s a little bit more like prestigious, right? It’s like, okay, people know what this, what this. what would you say it was called again,
[00:16:53] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:16:53] the Boulder skyline.
[00:16:55] Rich Ryan: [00:16:55] He had the Boulder skyline people know, I don’t know. I’ve never run it, but
[00:16:59] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:16:59] I guess every area has their, has their prestige, like the Northeast has like some huge, like legit traverses that I honestly don’t know them, but, they’re just like really beefy routes in the area.
[00:17:10] Like Colorado has a ton that I just don’t know about, but, So like, I guess it’s kind of like a Mitch thing. Like every region has their own like big, cool routes. So to say,
[00:17:25] Rich Ryan: [00:17:25] yeah, I just, I actually was on the website today looking at it because I’ve never really been on it. and I noticed like the, the trail system we have here in Philadelphia, there’s someone mapped out like, All the points that it would touch.
[00:17:37] And like, that’s like an FK T now I’m looking at like, Oh shit. That’s like right around the corner. Like that would be really cool. Cause people know what those trails are and I’d imagine it would be the same thing in any general geographic area. So w what do you feel like is the main appeal to that? I mean, ton of owners have touched that trail, so like, you’ve run it faster than anybody.
[00:17:54] Is it, is it, is it an accomplishment thing on. For just your own type of goals or is it cool to like, see how you’re stacking up against anybody who’s gone after this?
[00:18:06] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:18:06] Yeah, that’s a good question. I mean, I think it’s a little bit of, a little bit of everything, you know, like I, I personally just went out to test myself and see where I was at, because like I’d never really run the, that particular route hard or like, F T effort.
[00:18:22] So to say, just cause it’s different than racing, cause you’re out there alone. But yeah. I mean, a lot of people totally do it to see how they stack up with the people in their community or, depending on the SKT, like around the world, and other people yeah. Just do it to test themselves and see where they’re at.
[00:18:39] But for me, the biggest, I was really just curious to see how I would do, on the Boulder skyline traverse, because like I know the trails well, And, it’s just like one of those iconic roots that if you live in Boulder and you’re, you’re a trail runner, you should definitely give it a try. And it’s like a cool, for me, like it’s a cool baseline test.
[00:18:59] So like over the years I can just like, go run it again and to see like how much faster I can do it. compared to myself, yeah.
[00:19:08] Rich Ryan: [00:19:08] For sure. And it is now it’s like on record for that and it could always be revisited and it’s gotta be cool to say, you’d be like, yeah, no, one’s run this faster than me on this awesome trail.
[00:19:19] And when you’re prepared, when you’re preparing for something like this, cause that’s what I was thinking. When I was looking at this one that’s near me. I was like, I know all these trails have been on them all in a different respect and never run it all at once. Is there a process. In terms of like scouting or did you know what this, if you’ve done it enough times that you knew exactly where to go and what would count or like how you, like, if I was to go do this 21 mile trail on that, that I just found, should I go and just try to do it or should I go in like different times to try to
[00:19:51] scout
[00:19:51] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:19:51] it out?
[00:19:52] What I did, is like I ran the skyline traversing, a long run. and then, okay. I was like, okay, I can cover. This amount of distance at a relatively easy effort. easy in air quotes, because like when you’re running for three hours,
[00:20:07] Rich Ryan: [00:20:07] just 8,000 feet, it’s
[00:20:10] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:20:10] you just gotta, you end up having to like, at the beginning, you’re like, yeah.
[00:20:13] LA and that person, and you’re like, Ooh, I kind of got focused. Yeah, well, yeah, like I went out there on a long run and I ran it and like three hours and 10 minutes. And then like, I kind of like, there’s just a bunch of people going for it, like running it hard. And then I was like, kinda like, just like, I kinda.
[00:20:32] Dissected it, you know, like there’s like the first climb and then there’s like a giant middle saddle that you got across. and then there’s like one tiny climb at the end again. So then I just dissected that and like kind of ballparked where I would be at each time. Like, yeah, where, where I would be, at running at a hardest effort.
[00:20:52] So I’d say like, yeah, just definitely study the route you’re going to do. And like, I mean, it’s right in your backyard. So you, like, if you know the trails even better, because the worst thing is like, you’re super tired and you take a wrong turn and then you don’t notice until five minutes later. And you’re like, ah,
[00:21:07] Rich Ryan: [00:21:07] that’s what I’d be worried about is getting off work.
[00:21:10] Then even like having a strategy, I would hate to go out there and run for 25 miles and it just have like a wasted F Katy attempt and then a wasted it. Week of training. did you point your training toward this one? Once, you know, things are book canceled until
[00:21:24] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:21:24] September. So like at first, like I was like, I was more, I was just going to do a really hard effort, like a hard uphill effort.
[00:21:35] It was going to be like a heart, like on 30 minutes or just like out of one of the local mountains. just cause in training, I just don’t ever get to do like a hard. Hard effort. Like I do a lot, I do a lot of threshold work, but that’s different than like just going balls to the wall for 30 minutes. so I was like, okay.
[00:21:51] Yeah. Like, I lack experience and pushing myself really hard. So let’s do this like 30 minute, climb about 30 minutes. but then like I just saw a bunch of people going for the Boulder skyline. And then I was like, Oh, this rat’s so cool. Like, one of the reasons I really liked the Boulder skyline is because you spend a lot of time running.
[00:22:09] Downhill, which makes it unique. Like, yeah, you go from really steep, downhill to really gradual downhill, and then you climb a bunch and then you go really steep to just like consistent downhill again. so I was like, and I was like, Oh, it’d just be awesome to run that art. And then, yeah. Essentially just often on doing that hard.
[00:22:32] And then yeah, I did rest up a bit for it. I took a couple easy days before it, So it was like, yeah, it says like comparable to preparing for a race, but it’s different in racing in the way that you’re running alone. So like in a race, you naturally take it out much harder or you’re able to just like push a little harder the whole time.
[00:22:52] Because of the adrenaline and just like, you just feel the pressure of people chasing you or like you chasing people. And like, in the middle of this thing, I was like running uphill. And then I would just like, notice my heart rate drop. I was like, it’s not supposed to drop. Or like, while I was running downhill, like I just like feel my heart rate drop and I’d be like, Ooh, okay.
[00:23:12] Time to focus, Johnny. And
[00:23:14] Rich Ryan: [00:23:14] yeah. Yeah. Like you can just get lost when you’re by yourself on a long run. It’s still took you what, two and a half hours or so to
[00:23:22] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:23:22] two 46, something like that
[00:23:27] Rich Ryan: [00:23:27] to be out there.
[00:23:28] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:23:28] Yeah, that was my first time running. like just like a trail race for that long trail race. Just like a longer SKT on my own.
[00:23:36]like I’ve raised OCR, race, Spartan races that have been upwards of three hours. but never, something in the trails. So like I was kind of, I was new to the pacing and just like how aggressively you could potentially run it. so I think that’s another thing that makes MKTs really unique is that you got to know yourself really well as an athlete.
[00:23:57] And I’m just over a variety of distances because like the pacing has changes completely alone and like it’s a different mind game to keep yourself motivated and pushing hard.
[00:24:09] Rich Ryan: [00:24:09] Were you prepared for that lapse in focus or is, or did that happen during like a downhill? Oh no. Like I need to regroup. Or was that something that you knew was going that could potentially happen and you had a plan for.
[00:24:24]Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:24:24] no, I actually didn’t think of that at all. So it kinda caught me off guard. but it’s like, I, I was using my just heart rate as a guide for how hard I was actually working. So then like when I would see it drop, I’d be like, Oh, time to keep going. But I didn’t, I didn’t really see that coming. So. One thing like that, I ran into like some sticking points, I guess in the FPT were that my transitions were kind of slow.
[00:24:50] So like, there’s some like really technical peaks that you gotta like scramble up, scramble back down. It’s like, I don’t know. Maybe like a hundred, like there’s like a 50 foot scramble, 50 to a hundred foot, like two of those. And then like, I’ll just like, kinda like, be like hopping from rock to rock and then stop on top of the fuel.
[00:25:07] And then I just like hop on back down. So like stuff like that can be a lot faster because you kind of just like lose that race intensity, if that makes sense.
[00:25:18] Rich Ryan: [00:25:18] And when you’re running it, that type of effort and there’s any reason to slow down your it’s going to be hard to not take it.
[00:25:29] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:25:29] But what I found interesting was that like early on in that type of effort, like, it doesn’t feel hard because like you take it out. I don’t know, I took it out much more like in an OCR race, you kind of just like, go with the leaders and you just like, hold on, regardless of how long the race is. It’s like, and, and yeah, but like here you’re like, huh?
[00:25:50]I don’t actually need to take it out that freaking hard. So then you, like, you take it out and you’re like, Oh, this feels really good. And then you kind of just hold on. And then like the last 30 minutes are kind of, Crappy and
[00:26:01] Rich Ryan: [00:26:01] just wait for it.
[00:26:03] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:26:03] Yeah, essentially. So I thought that was interesting.
[00:26:05] That was quite different.
[00:26:07] Rich Ryan: [00:26:07] And that could actually shine some light on that. Cause that’s what I’ve always had a struggle with in obstacle course racing is that it does go out so hard and then it’s just, you end up just holding on for dear life where if it was a longer race, it was like a two hour road race.
[00:26:21] Like you wouldn’t just go with the leaders. Like you would know what your pace was and you would run your own race, but. And it was, I just kind of have to hit it. You’re just kind of at the mercy of it, that would help like your strategy now. Like, do you like, or do you think that’s necessary in obstacle course racing to just, to, to hit it hard from the jump?
[00:26:39] Or is there a place for pacing?
[00:26:42] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:26:42] I think there’s definitely a place for pacing. but it’s like OCR is more. Like you just have like external factors. It’s like trail running. I could, you can really just bank off your strengths. if you’re like a really strong runner and just like trust that, but like in OCR you kind of got to stay in contention because like, if you’re, like, let’s say you’re not very strong at carrying things, like bucket carrier, sandbag carry.
[00:27:10] And if you’re like carrying that completely alone and you’re trying to win the race and you’re like trying to chase the leaders, but they’re out of sight, I think. That’s not ideal. So in OCR it could be more advantageous to go out hard, with leaders and then just make your move whenever, like you hit like terrain that suits you.
[00:27:30]just because like the like maintaining intensity through obstacles is super important, especially in OCR. And like, you can just lose so much time when you’re lackadaisical. so I think it’s important to go with the leaders. To a degree, you know, if it’s, if we’re looking at like an ultra then yeah.
[00:27:46] Like pace, but if it’s like a super distance type thing, then go out with the leaders were build off, like work with their intensity and make your move. That’s like, if you have the fitness to take hang,
[00:28:03] Rich Ryan: [00:28:03] right. Cause if you don’t like you’ll it’ll show, but yeah, you might get lost. Cause, cause it’s a good point when you.
[00:28:11] Say that if you get to an obstacle by yourself, say you’re by yourself in fifth, you still are, are in that mode of like trying to conserve. Like there’s no reason to push, to catch the person in front of you. You can’t see them and you just don’t want to mess anything up. And it’s a different mindset then.
[00:28:24] So you do want to kind of be, be with the people. But that was kind of what you did do at big bear, right. That was one of the breakout races international season series that you had when you, when you did win, but you wouldn’t, you weren’t banging at the front from the jump up things. And like, is that kinda what you mean by like, just being around and just having, like giving yourself a shot when, when you know it’s
[00:28:46] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:28:46] there?
[00:28:47] Yeah, definitely. So like in, I guess, like I’m pretty new to. New and air quotes again to Spartan racing. Like I don’t have nearly as many races under my belt as like VJ or Ryan Kempson. so like, One thing that like the troubles I ran into last year or early in the season, like I just wasn’t starting fast enough.
[00:29:10] And then I get to the finish line and be like, Oh, race is over and I’m not super tight. so then like, Going to Seattle, like, it was a little better. I ended up finishing fourth there. like I started at faster. and then big bear, like I saw the elevation profile and I saw the steepness of the Hills.
[00:29:27] And like, just like when you spend time in the mountains, you kind of know how long, certain, like, like a route will take you. so then, like I had a good, I had a ballpark idea of like, it would take ’em around two hours. So then I just kind of. took it out hard with everyone, but, kind of banked on like my strengths.
[00:29:48] So that was a little different than the way that like I knew that the terrain would suit me, thanked on that.
[00:29:58] Rich Ryan: [00:29:58] Since then and Utah, and even in Seattle, I remember that race. I was with you early. Cause I was super aggressive. I’m usually aggressive at the beginning for that reason. And like you stormed past me down, like the, one of the downhills in the beginning that aren’t wasn’t that long or steep. And I was like, Oh my God, like, I didn’t.
[00:30:14] I need to really step my game up when it, when it comes to these downhills. But, and then when I look at your, the FKC effort that just have, cause you had that you posted your Strava on there and it looks like there was some downhills sections that were what like 30 or 40 minutes or so on that.
[00:30:30] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:30:30] Yeah, the first one, the first downhill section was like, I guess, significant downhill section was.
[00:30:37] Honestly, 11 minutes. and then the second one was 30 minutes and then the third download section was around 11 minutes. Again,
[00:30:45] Rich Ryan: [00:30:45] how 30 minutes going down? how do you prepare for something like that or in the moment when you’re running those downhills, are you trying to. rely on your strengths as an athlete, or is there a certain focus element that plays into the mental part of your approach that you are consistently?
[00:31:06] You’re reminding yourself to like attack the downhill because that’s so long, even 11 minutes is a long ass time to go down. So like what, what is it with, would you say that’s more of a byproduct of your, your training or is there something mental when it comes to hammering the downhill for a long time?
[00:31:25]Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:31:25] it’s definitely both, you know? so yeah, it’s definitely a byproduct of training. Like I train in the mountains a lot. so you just hit like down long downhills in your training, but like, there’s definitely a mental component that you gotta keep yourself accountable because it’s so easy to lose intensity on downhills.
[00:31:41] Like a lot of people and they’ll go for, I dunno and races, like they’ll run up uphill really hard, but then on downhill, like their heart rate will just. Dropped to like one, I don’t know, one Oh five, just jog down. It’s walking backwards. I can’t keep up. It’s like you you’re racing. You gotta keep like a even intensity throughout the whole thing.
[00:32:02] Like obviously like keeping like their strengths and weaknesses in mind, you know, you don’t want to run like something so recklessly that you just fall. So, yeah, I mean, there’s, it’s definitely a combination of just like how you train and the mental side of things. Like if you have the skillset then definitely like inject mental intensity into your downhills and it’ll, it’ll work.
[00:32:22] Like you’ll run them a lot faster and then practice them in training as well. If like you have the, soft tissue tolerance, to handle the pounding. and yeah, you’ll definitely see the benefits. Either racing or yeah, that’s the thing,
[00:32:38] Rich Ryan: [00:32:38] it’s a thing now with no raises, that’s all we got. so what are some ways that, like you mentioned staying accountable and then you drop like a heart rate stuff right there.
[00:32:45] Like where is the way to keep yourself accountable on that? Because it’s easy for someone who might not have the experience in going down or, or might be afraid of falling because. That shit is scary. Like, like how would you recommend someone keep themselves accountable for actually attacking a downhill and training or like a race?
[00:33:04] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:33:04] Yeah. I mean, step one is definitely just expose yourself, like get on tour, like train that’s similar to your race strain, like, and like similar type of downhills. If you have access to them, like just exposing yourself to, it will make you so much more comfortable, like pushing harder. And then once you’re like, Once you’re more comfortable there.
[00:33:25]definitely there’s a couple of ways. you can just like, keep yourself accountable mentally and be like, Oh, this feels really easy. Let me push a little more. totally depends on the training session. You know, whether it’s a long run or like a tempo run type thing, or you can use heart rate, which is what I do a lot in my, like in my long runs and tempo runs.
[00:33:43] Like, I make sure my heart rate is at like, At a certain above a certain number on downhills, and then that just helps develop skill, and, makes you naturally, attack them easier and then come race day. You’ve already trained it. So it, the only thing you gotta do is open the flood Gates and go.
[00:34:06] Rich Ryan: [00:34:06] So when the heart rate cause that, that that’s.
[00:34:10] An awesome way to go about it. Right? You have the heart rate, you know, the data, do you know what you’re capable of? And then when you just look and see where it’s at, you should know you should be able to run X amount of pace or whatever. Have you found with downhill training? Like where does that heart rate at like a hard race effort kind of put you in training?
[00:34:26] Would that be what your heart rate would be on a typical tempo run or is it kind of the same across all efforts? Like, is your heart rate the same going up as it is going down?
[00:34:36] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:34:36] yeah. Yeah. That’s what I aim for. yeah, it’s the same that says that’s what I aim for. Like, whether it’s a long run or a tempo run.
[00:34:45] So, we, so like I have my heart rate zones, I don’t know, there are anywhere like one 45 to like just under one 60 type thing. And then I just try to keep my heart rate above one 45 on the downhills, which can be like, and I like doing that because it forces you to expand your, Skill set when it gets really technical, it just pushes you to, cause when it gets really technical, like you got people just have a tendency to slow down, but then having that heart rate accountability is just like, okay, I need to push a tiny bit harder.
[00:35:17] And like, especially, for example, my heart rate zone, that’s like one 45 to one 60. That’s like my that’s like what all the touch, like what I’ll work in, in long runs? it’s not like. It’s like, it’s a very comfortable, intensity. So it gives you like enough. I guess wiggle room mentally that you can still, that you can still breathe.
[00:35:38] You know, it’s not like a, it’s not like you’re running at threshold. And I think it’s really important to do like most of your run, like a lot of your downhill running at like an intensity that you can like. Actually think and feel it and feel how you’re moving, because that’s how you develop good habits and learn how to absorb impacts smoothly.
[00:35:58] Rich Ryan: [00:35:58] And it makes sense because people either want to hit it really hard going downhill whenever they have a shot. Like if they’re just out on a regular training run and they have a. A crack at a downhill, they’ll just take it. or they will go slower. Like you said, it’ll just like back all the way off and that’s a heart rate come all the way down.
[00:36:13] So do you plan in your training accordingly to have different, different efforts at different paces on your downhill? So you can get an idea of how it feels?
[00:36:23] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:36:23] Yeah, definitely. So like, For, I mean like the days that I really target downhill training are like on tempo run days. I do that like a couple of times a month or on interval days, I’ll do that.
[00:36:37] I don’t know. Once a month, sometimes it’s tough. and then long runs just every long run. I generally run them with purpose. so that I’m still developing, but you really kind of gotta be selective. Cause if you do it every single week, like if you do up down tempos every single week or, and like running your longer runs long run downhills with purpose, like it, your body takes a beating, which, You just say, you just got to really time it.
[00:37:05] Right. if that makes sense, like, what I’m trying to say is that you can’t go into every single run, trying to keep like your heart rate, pretty dang, like. Pretty high, like on downhills, because like, as like that stress will catch up to you. So I say like, yes, like you got to time it, well, like once a week or once every two weeks, depending who you are, or twice a week, depending who you are.
[00:37:30]it can. Eh, it can yield some great benefits, but you got to time it well with recovery and all that stuff.
[00:37:38] Rich Ryan: [00:37:38] And when you are scheduling in something like downhill intervals, or, downhill tempo, downhill with purpose, and like you are like laying out your week or athletes or your coach, like a week or month, what kind of recovery does it the typically expect from that?
[00:37:53] Cause like, if I’m hitting like intervals or something just on flats, but at like. You know, a VO two max pace. Like I know I need probably two days to get my shit together. Like how long does it, like how long do you find in your own or in some, like an athlete who your who’s just starting out?
[00:38:09] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:38:09] Well, it really depends where you are and your, where you are in training.
[00:38:13] So like early in the year, when, like during the winter, like I focus mainly on flat running, and just like really just get that. Just get good at running, essentially. and then you got, at some point you got introduced to the mountain stuff and it’s kind of like a trial by fire because like the first time you do like a up down tempo run or like interval work, you can get super sore.
[00:38:35]so you gotta either like plan that in early in your training block, when you’re not carrying a lot of stress or fatigue in the body, Or like late in the training block before recovery week. that’s your best bet. And like, that’s how you’re gonna get out of it with the least amount of, Longterm damage.
[00:38:52] Like, definitely like if it’s your first time doing it definitely expect some serious soreness. Like till like this year, I think I was sore for like a good week and a half after my first heart uptown effort. but now, like for example, I just did this F F Katie last week and I wasn’t very sore. just like some minor, savor light stabilizers soreness.
[00:39:13] Instead of like your quads just exploding, just ripped to pieces.
[00:39:17] Rich Ryan: [00:39:17] Yeah.
[00:39:17] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:39:17] Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, timing it early in the training block or late in the training block before a down week is, is really good. And, but I’d say definitely go on the conservative side. Like if you’re really, really new to it, take a day or two or three days off after just like, just because it is, it is a lot of impact.
[00:39:39]the impact for us is much higher than just running flat or uphill because, You have gravity pushing down on you out of slope and your stride length sometimes is a lot longer, which will equate to just like a lot more East centric, loading
[00:39:56] Rich Ryan: [00:39:56] and with, and when you’re measuring volume and intensity that way, are you going?
[00:40:00] Time-based with, say it’s just like downhill in particular. I want me to stick with this. Would you be like accumulate? 10 minutes of interval work down or a 10 or, or would it just be, do six miles on a hilly course?
[00:40:15] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:40:15] Yeah. I mean, it totally depends like where you are. Like I said, like, if you’re new to it, then I’d probably just start literally with like one minute intervals for like four minutes, total, but like really.
[00:40:27] Fast, you know, like I track all my volume, through time and my athletes while I am through time. and each of them are in different stages of life, as a, and, and different stages in their running career. so it really like if you’re really just starting it, like, I would just say, just get in the mountains, get used to running up and down and.
[00:40:48] Don’t even really don’t dabble with high speeds on downhills yet. But like, if you’ve already, if you’re like more seasoned, like you’ve done a couple of mountain races and I’m at a good place with your body, then you can definitely start dabbling with it. Like you can do. I don’t know, workout that I’ll do for a couple of my athletes is like, if they have a tempo run, there’ll be like 10 minutes up.
[00:41:11] Three minutes down and then rest type thing. And then repeat that. you obviously need a really big Hill. but like for myself, Like with something Ian will program in for me is like 30 minutes up and then down, down the whole mountain type thing and then rest and then 30 minutes up. And then I don’t know, it totally depends how much volume I have on a given day and what we’re trying to target, because the intervals are different than tempo runs.
[00:41:38] Cause intervals are just generally a lot faster. Then I’d say for downhill interval, Try to keep it low volume, lower volume, like under three minutes, just because you’re really going to be pushing close to a really fast race pace, which I don’t think. And tapping into that too often in a training block.
[00:42:00] Isn’t the greatest thing for, for a sustainability in that. Given training block.
[00:42:08] Rich Ryan: [00:42:08] Right. And like, if you’re doing three minute intervals, even if you’re doing four of them, like it’s still 12 minutes at as hard of an effort as possible. Right. Which,
[00:42:18] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:42:18] yeah. So like, I wouldn’t, I like something I’m I personally I’d rather do like two minutes up and then one minute down type thing.
[00:42:27]I wouldn’t, I don’t. See too much value in going just three minutes. Downhill really, really hard was that
[00:42:37] Rich Ryan: [00:42:37] that’s like ripping. That’s like crazy.
[00:42:38] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:42:38] Yeah. Yeah. I don’t see too much value in that just because the recovery out of that will just be really, it’s just, it’s just, it’ll just take longer to recover from it.
[00:42:48] And I don’t think it’s worth putting yourself in that big of a hole. You’re better off just getting more volume in the mountains in a way that’s sustainable.
[00:42:59] Rich Ryan: [00:42:59] And do you build that up the same way as well for some of that athletes that you coach or for yourself when you’re tracking everything by time, but is there an elevation tracking component as well?
[00:43:11] Or is it just go now and spend 50
[00:43:13] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:43:13] minutes? So one thing. Yeah, generally in the winter, I totally depends where these people live. Like I have some, like, I have an athlete he lives in Northern California and he just has access to like a 3000 foot mat, mountain year round. so, yeah, but like, let’s say someone lives somewhere that it, it gets snow in the winter.
[00:43:35] So they’re like pretty much bound to flat land running and then, or they just, or they’re new to running and they haven’t run much. At all. So like, I’d like, I’d start both athletes, like, okay. Like first let’s do a block, like flat and then have a block that kind of it’s like hilly. Like you have, like, I guess, medium length climbs and then medium length.
[00:43:58] Short to medium length climbs. And then, the third block, you can introduce like some more mountainous stuff. just because like that, you gotta just be really gradual with your changes and stress because it’s that. It’s the different, it’s like the drastic changes and stress that people run into trouble with.
[00:44:17] Like, for example, like you can take a well-seasoned road runner, like, cause like just a ton of marathons under his belt, but we’re her about, but if you put them in the mountains, and they’re putting in like the same amount of volume as they are on the roads, the likelihood of them finding, like getting some sort of soft tissue injury, or even bone is I’d say is.
[00:44:39] Pretty high, just because the angles, the stress are coming in are very different and they’re just not used to absorbing that type of impact. And they’re just like tendons and ligaments. Aren’t used to being loaded and those angles as well. So that’s why, like you just got introduced stress slowly over the course of months and like, especially changes in stress.
[00:45:00]you kinda just gotta like, Sprinkle it in wa rather than just doing the trial by fire, I find that’s definitely the way to go about it. People I coach and just like anyone really?
[00:45:14] Rich Ryan: [00:45:14] Yeah, no, I can testify to that. Like I did that exact thing. I can handle a shitload of volume when it comes to being on the roads or, just in general life.
[00:45:24] And I try to do that into some mountain training last year after I got crushed at a couple of mountain races and I got hurt. I just like was a complete mess after that, just put myself in this huge hole, just trying to catch up essentially where, I didn’t really give myself a chance to just let myself adapt that, tried to force it and it doesn’t always work out very well.
[00:45:46] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:45:46] Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, it’s amazing what the body can do. If you just give it the. The the volume, the incremental volume increase. well, I guess the like the slow build rather than the super Jagat build, the slow build and plenty of rest during the build, is important in your body. Can handle a lot.
[00:46:08] Rich Ryan: [00:46:08] So speaking of that, in terms of, you know, like last year, that’s some of the weaknesses that I was trying to work on was trying to get better at the Hills in the mountains. but in your case, like what are some of the things that you’ve been working on, outside of that for OCI that you can give yourself that slow build build in?
[00:46:23]Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:46:23] so you mean like off school? What do
[00:46:25] Rich Ryan: [00:46:25] you, what are you working on? Like yeah. What, what’s, what are some of the weaknesses you have and how you kind of do something on your training?
[00:46:31] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:46:31] Yeah. I mean, like, I got my, yeah, I had, how do I say this? I, I just, like, I got creamed on the obstacles and Jacksonville, like I had the, the speed to keep up, but like, those guys just like outdid me on obstacles in every way possible.
[00:46:47] So like, after that race, I decided I was going to work on just obstacles and get proficient at them and increase my confidence. So then, the way I was layering it in was just like in my, I was, I, I generally do two days of strength a week. So then one of those days of strength was going to be obstacle specific.
[00:47:05] Just get really good at just cycling through monkey bars, different types of rigs, her toys. Her voice, just get really smooth. but then obviously same concept applies, start with low volume and increase slowly. just because I don’t know, it just be really annoying to get like some sort of like elbow tendinitis or shoulder injury from just doing way too much, too fast.
[00:47:27]So, I guess that’s like how, how I was working on my obstacles. And then, I was also integrating caries and I did it in the same way. just lower volume, and just getting the, and slowly increasing the volume with time. but now at this point, since we’re. COVID I really haven’t been working on obstacles and I’ve just been, just working on my mountain running and just scrambling.
[00:47:55] And it’s getting in the mountains really. Because I just don’t know when we’re going to do a Spartan race again,
[00:48:01] Rich Ryan: [00:48:01] that same deal. Like, yeah, I was going to a rock climbing gym and I was going to other gyms, just doing a whole bunch of stuff to work on obstacles. And, haven’t done any of that now. I’m kind of like, everyone’s going to come back and just be terrible at obstacles.
[00:48:12] When we get back, it’s going to be like, 2015, where people are just missing all the stuff. Like the one person who’s clean, wins the race.
[00:48:21] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:48:21] Yeah. I don’t know. We’ll see. It’ll be interesting. but yeah, I mean, that’s a, that was like, I was. That was the approach I was taking. And then I was looking forward to Seattle to see, well, I was actually going to actually, Whoa, that was a really bad sentence.
[00:48:36] I was, I had also planned some training races. I was going to go out to Vegas and I think Texas, just to get, That, that fast obstacle transition experience in my, under my belt. but yeah, that’s all on there. That’s all in the past now.
[00:48:51] Rich Ryan: [00:48:51] And when you’re, and when you were going to do that, like in a gym, like, do you just have access to monkey bars or, and you’re just doing it at a higher rate or.
[00:48:59]Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:48:59] yeah, so there’s this gym, nearby, it’s called fit F OCR. they’re out of, I forgot the name of the city, but they’re near Boulder. They’re like 20 minutes away. so then they, I was using their facility. They have pretty much every obstacle, and the way I was doing it, I was, so the biggest, My biggest struggle during the race was just like hopping on the obstacle really fast.
[00:49:19] So then I guess I chose first, I would do like a bunch of slower reps just to get really proficient at the obstacle. And then I’d like get like three obstacles and then just like do like two or three rounds on them as fast as possible. So like monkey bars into her voice, into like a multi rig type thing, just to get really fluent and like confident on to just like hopping obstacles without thinking about it.
[00:49:45] Rich Ryan: [00:49:45] What do you consider the limiter there? Like, is it a strength thing is a technique, is a confidence of what kind of like, what do you attribute this Jackson?
[00:49:55] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:49:55] It was strictly a confidence thing. it’s funny because when I first started OCR, I was like really good at obstacles. but I wasn’t very good at running, but now I just focus a ton on running and, yeah.
[00:50:07] I guess cardio because I own the bike a lot. and, I guess just like my obstacle, confidence just isn’t as high as, as it could be. I wouldn’t say I’m bad obstacles, but it’s just different when, I just didn’t want to make any stupid mistakes. So, I guess it’s part of, it’s just letting go and just like really just going for it, you know?
[00:50:27] Rich Ryan: [00:50:27] Yeah. Because I mean, if you’re going to miss an obstacle, you can’t really exhibit the fitness that you’ve been working on. So it’s like, well, I’ve been doing all this work and I get in shape. And like you said, like, you’re not bad at obstacles, but like if you’re in a race and there’s four people ahead of you in the world and they’re better than you and obstacles, like you might be better than the rest of the world, but you still need to work on those weaknesses to get.
[00:50:49] To be the best.
[00:50:51] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:50:51] I think like part of the issue is just like getting in the pits and getting my hands dirty and just like going to a bunch of races and like practice racing. and just getting really proficient and stuff like that, and just embracing the whole process and
[00:51:09] Rich Ryan: [00:51:09] yeah, and there’s definitely an element of experience that plays in with obstacle course racing that you just really can’t get around.
[00:51:14] Like, so it’s hard to come into it, even if you have all the tools and do well, because of the things that you’re mentioning. It’s like just knowing how people go in and out of things and like the little tricks that come up and how to handle. Different obstacles and different weather and different places in the race.
[00:51:29] It’s just like, you would need to kind of do it, which kind of sucks. But
[00:51:32] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:51:32] yeah, I mean, I think that’s why Nicole miracle was so successful last season. It’s cause like she did, like, I don’t know, she just did a ton of races early in the year, so that I’m one of the big races came around. She didn’t even have to think about the obstacles.
[00:51:46]but. And she just like accumulated a lot of experience. I mean, Ryan Kempson and VJ are great examples of that. They have so many races under their belt. so come off school time, they just blow right through it. Yeah.
[00:52:00] Rich Ryan: [00:52:00] Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s like anything. So you got to slowly build on it and get that focus down.
[00:52:05] It’s kind of like what you’re saying for the downhills, like ha like keeping yourself honest, keeping yourself accountable, because that’s what I found. Like I’m, I’m in the same boat where if I come up to something and I’m like, I just kind of stall out because I don’t want to screw it up as opposed to running the race, just to move through it.
[00:52:20] So I’m not. It’s hard to hold yourself accountable or something like that. And, how do you do that in training? You just go after and like, if I suck at this, I suck at this and it’s no big deal. And
[00:52:29] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:52:29] it really depends. Like, if it’s like a obstacle thing and that’s like a generally, like if you suck an obstacle it’s so it’s a technique thing.
[00:52:38] So you just gotta work through it slowly and really get those neuromuscular patterns down. But like, Because it’s like a running thing. You really, you got to look into it more like, because running is just, it’s, it’s one of those things that takes so long to progress. so like, if you’re just like bad at flats, you really just gotta hit your flat running from all angles.
[00:53:00]but yeah, I mean, if I’m not great at something, I generally dissect it and try to approach it from all angles.
[00:53:07] Rich Ryan: [00:53:07] Hmm. Yeah. And finding the access to do something and just figuring out how to do it. Like, like you have, you can be like, all right, I need to get to a gym.
[00:53:14] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:53:14] We have the OCR gym. And then like, Boulder is just so great for flat running and mountain running.
[00:53:20]we have access to. Oh, yeah, like a five mile climb if you really wanted it. But then you have like, you can run like a flat marathon on farm roads if you want it to as well. So
[00:53:33] Rich Ryan: [00:53:33] jealous every day. Yeah, well, and, and one thing I did want to kind of touch on with you a little bit is as well as like, you know, the physical component of training, you know, it seems like you are systematic with it and you, you are, you have a certain sense of humility to go after your weaknesses and to work on them and to, and to build them up to that, they become your strengths.
[00:53:53] Like you said, with your running, you just weren’t there now. Like you’re you run with anybody. but to get to the level of like, Where you are now, there has to be some sort of mental component that comes along with that. And how have you, has, has the physical work that you’ve put into, you know, take care of your weaknesses?
[00:54:13] Has that just led you to a stronger mental game? Or is there anything that you, you’ve done to facilitate, the jump from, you know, mid pack, like, you know, the high end mid pack guy to the, like the top.
[00:54:28] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:54:28] Yeah. I mean, dang, I guess like, I, I kinda like approached there’s a while back that I just decided like, I, like, I really like.
[00:54:40] Spartan races and mountain running. And I want to be great at it, you know? but like I kept just running into like a ton of roadblocks, like just like injuries left and right. So then I was like, what the heck is going on? Like I’m 22 years old and I keep getting like quad strains, Achilles tendonitis, blah, blah, blah.
[00:55:00] Like this is not normal. So then I guess that. When, like I was super fed up with that. I kinda like zoomed out and I was like, what am I doing wrong? I’m like, why can I not train the way, want to? and I guess that was like my first moment of like true honesty with myself. And like, there was just like all these, like, No, I don’t want to call them flaws and training, but like, it just, like, I just didn’t have a system in place that really worked for me.
[00:55:33] And I just, wasn’t being honest with myself, you know, like, I was doing like all sorts of like rookie mistakes that I just didn’t want to embrace because my ego was just in the way. so then I guess that was, that was. Big for me to just be like, okay, Johnny, like you are not made out of carbon fiber.
[00:55:52]so like you gotta like work from the bottom up, you know? So then like, I got a good running coach. I’m like great running coach. And then I got a great, I guess strength and mobility balance coach. And then I also did, I also was just honest with myself, you know, like whether, like, if something was really stressful in my life, which.
[00:56:18] It makes a huge difference in your training, you know, just how much stress is in your current life. Like I approached that and figure out how to make it less stressful and like just taking care of my mental health, you know, meditating, journaling type stuff, and having conversations with the people around me.
[00:56:34]I like, it’s hard to pinpoint like one thing that helped me get to like, I guess, I’m not sure the word you use, but I guess that helped me get from where I was then to where I am now. It was just a huge process and like a lot of injuries and a lot of mistakes. And it was being able to look from above, look at the mistakes and like the red flags that popped up and I ignored.
[00:56:58] And I’m learning from those, you know, and also like looking at what the great athletes around me were doing, and learning from them as well. But around me, I mean, like, just like the best mountain runners and the best obstacle, race athletes, and trying to learn from them as much as possible and trusting, people that were smarter than me and just have more experience than me.
[00:57:21] Rich Ryan: [00:57:21] And that’s something that we, that I hear that when I talk to people and when they, when I’m trying to examine their goals and, and get to the bottom of things, they just want to be like, The everybody has that thought they want to be the best that they can be. They want to put everything in there, but there is always that there’s always something that they’re not willing to put aside.
[00:57:38]and how did you kind of do that? Zoom out practice and like, was it just something they, did you just have to decide that on your own or did somebody like, Hey, like what’s actually going on here? Like, are you doing everything you can, or how did that, that spark it?
[00:57:52] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:57:52] Yeah. So, when I was 19 years old, Broke my shin.
[00:57:57] I got a really bad stress fracture. And then I just kept, like, it was at 19 nine might have been 18, but like at the time I played soccer, I broke my shin. and then, I just kept playing on it, playing on it, and then it turned into like, this non-healing break in my shin and then it just took. A while to heal.
[00:58:16] And then like, once it healed, I started training for Spartan races and then I rebroke it. And I just kept running on it for like a year. And then I had to take a year and a half off. So then that year and a half, it really gave me a lot of time to think and figure out how I want to approach training. but even when I got back, I was, I still kept running into like a bunch of roadblocks and, It was just like one soft tissue injury after the other.
[00:58:45] And then it got to the point that I was just, I was like, I was pretty, I was just desperate. So then I gave ’em some coaches, a call and I was like, look, this is what’s going on. Like, and this is, this is what I want to accomplish. Can you help me? Like, I’m willing to do whatever it takes. and they said, yes.
[00:59:05] And I was, I was. I was just open to learn from them, I guess. that was really big for me, I guess. Like, it was just the trial by fire with all the injuries I had that, that made me look at things from above. and just like, I was just really fed up. I was like, I can’t do the things I really want to do.
[00:59:24]and I don’t understand why. And I guess that was a huge red flag. Like not understanding why I couldn’t run, not understanding why I kept getting these soft tissue injuries. that was, I guess, what sparked me to slow down and look from above and see what I could. Improve.
[00:59:44] Rich Ryan: [00:59:44] Yeah. And you mentioned before, like the ego kind of getting in your way and you just really just push that aside.
[00:59:49] It’s like, okay, if I’m going to do this, like I know there’s people out there who can help me, I just need to ask them to go ahead and put that up for the ego side even more.
[00:59:58] Johnny Luna-Lima: [00:59:58] Yeah, it’s tough. Cause like, I mean, like, I mean I’m still pretty young, but when I was younger, like, I’d see ’em. Just go on YouTube and watch like a bunch of videos of like people doing really cool things in the mountains.
[01:00:12] And like, I try to replicate that, but my body just wasn’t ready for it. Like I like, I’d been like training soccer really intensely from the time I was like 12, like I’d be putting in two to three hours a day of training, whether it was the ball or fitness. And I guess my, that. That just strained my body a lot and it needed a really big reset and I just couldn’t see it at the time.
[01:00:39] And yeah. I guess my ego just wanted to do all these things that looked awesome. And I just kept running myself repeatedly into the ground and I just didn’t understand why. And I felt sorry for myself, but then it got to the point that I was like, okay, Johnny time to be a big boy. And, you got to do, if you want to do this stuff.
[01:00:59] So then like, it’s funny. Cause when I started working with Ian again, last year at the beginning of last, I forgot like. What year is it 2020 end of 2018. I called them. I was like, look, dude, keep getting injured. I don’t know what’s going on. Like, let’s build me from the ground up. So we literally started with two hours of running per week and some cycling and just slowly like stacked and slowly built like a solid foundation, you know?
[01:01:27]and I guess what my body needed, it was just like lots of time to adapt to the stress. And like now I can run, I can run a lot more. pain-free thankfully, and get results that I like, and I’m able to play in the mountains pretty much as much as I want. so it’s, it took a lot of time, but it was definitely worth it for
[01:01:48] Rich Ryan: [01:01:48] me.
[01:01:50] Nice man. Yeah. And like that has to be an a, it’s a good lesson to learn and to have been able to do that and kind of set the ego aside. So if you get into those, hit those like kind of glass ceilings, again, it’s a practice you could just kind of put back in place. It’s like, okay, like, let me just zoom out again, figure out what’s really going on here.
[01:02:09] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:02:09] And it’s cool because as those things happen, like you gain experience. And then when a red flag pops up, you’re like, Ooh, I’ve seen this flag in the past before, or like a similar. Flag and like you just catch onto these patterns. And then like, as long as you’re humble enough to like, accept that you’re, that’s where your body is and that’s what your body needs.
[01:02:27] You can go really far and just push yourself. I guess that’s why you see athletes like Ryan Atkins are, can just like put in so much frickin volume and. Have it be sustainable because like when something hurts, he tapers down and just does what he needs to do. At least that’s what I like to think he does.
[01:02:46] Rich Ryan: [01:02:46] But that’s a good lesson to like, even just, even if you are just making it up to think about, because people will push through and I know I’ve definitely done it. You’ll just get to a point where it’s like, Oh, I built all this fitness. If I taper down now, am I going to lose this fitness? And you just start to.
[01:03:02] Go in that circular thinking and you’re like, well, I gotta push forward. I got to push through this and maybe it’ll get better. And then you just get shut down. and not doing the things like tapering it down when you need to, or when it would be beneficial for you to do so.
[01:03:14] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:03:14] Yeah. And like, like a, another thing that just really helped was getting the adequate protein intake.
[01:03:19]it’s just. I don’t know for like a while. I guess I wasn’t taking enough protein and it wasn’t really presenting itself in any crazy, injuries. Like. but like this, I think last year, I’d say, like, I just noticed that my recovery just, it got to the point that I just wasn’t recovering as well as I would have liked.
[01:03:39] Like I kept getting like small little tweaks here and there and my soft tissue. And like this year I just increased my protein intake all around and, Those small tweaks that were, were present last year, aren’t there, but also like over a year of training your tendons and ligaments, they get much stronger.
[01:03:58] So it might be that a little bit of that as well. Yeah.
[01:04:01] Rich Ryan: [01:04:01] Yeah. Well, the person definitely doesn’t hurt. And if, if no one’s ever examined how much protein they’re actually taking in, they probably don’t know. And you can sustain off of a fairly low amount of protein, but if you’re in work, you need to make sure you are hitting, hitting some numbers.
[01:04:15] Well, how much, or how much do you try to track now or to just try to put in as much protein as possible?
[01:04:20]Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:04:20] I don’t try to track it like with an Eagle eye. that’s just not how I like to function. but like if I had to guess I get anywhere between 140 and 150 grams per day. that’s, I’d say most days a week I can hit that.
[01:04:34] There’s just some days that like, I don’t know, it just doesn’t happen. but like, I definitely make sure to get the calories and, I don’t track those either, but, I, I make sure to have like four or five, like full meals and then a couple of snacks.
[01:04:48] Rich Ryan: [01:04:48] Yeah. And you can, after a while it gives you’re paying attention.
[01:04:51] You can intuitively kind of feel when you are like nourished, for lack of better terms. Like if you, if you know what it feels like to be hungry and you know, what it feels like to sustain your training, like you can kind of tell, just if you are just paying attention.
[01:05:06] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:05:06] Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It’s like one thing talking about being hungry and not hungry.
[01:05:12] It’s like a lot of times like an endurance training, like you’re just putting it in like a lot of volume and. Like you’ll eat, but like you’re still at a calorie deficit. And one thing that I found that really makes a difference for me is like, when I’m cross training, like I spent a lot of time on the bike, a week, like is to get in enough water and calories on the bike.
[01:05:30] Like, yeah, don’t just take in like a gel, like taking a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for like a full sweet potato or like, I know, like I have a rule for every hour I’m on the bike I’m taking, One cliff bar type thing. So like
[01:05:44] Rich Ryan: [01:05:44] anywhere from 50 to 250 calories an hour or
[01:05:46] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:05:46] so sometimes more sometimes there’ll be like 400 calories an hour, like depending on how much Liam I’m writing.
[01:05:52]but like I don’t do it to fuel the bike ride. I fuel, I do it to fuel my run that’s tomorrow or after tomorrow, or to fuel my training two weeks from then, That makes a huge difference for me, just, soft tissue and there’s like, it keeps my brain functioning,
[01:06:09] Rich Ryan: [01:06:09] dude. That’s a great point. And then like, I, there is, I think there’s some research that shows that, you know, if you’re eating during, like, it helps you recovery for the next day.
[01:06:18] And that really does make such a big difference. Like if you’re in a calorie deficit and you try to do back-to-back hard efforts to go along and then try to run the next day, like you are just. But if you’re eating, like it helped for me, I think it’s the best way to recover, like over anything else. I think the cat, like the calories and carbohydrates that you take in, I mean, aside from sleep, you can’t not sleep, but aside from that, nutrition is the way to go.
[01:06:43] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:06:43] Yeah, definitely. I agree. and it’s weird. Like I talked to like a lot of endurance athletes. I just have a lot more experience than I do. I like were like, these are like pro trail runners and like. They just don’t believe in like fueling during the runs. And I’m like, what are you doing? Or like during their really long bike rides.
[01:07:01] And I’m like, why, why? It’s like, I don’t understand if it’s like a pride thing or what’s going on there.
[01:07:10] I’m like, there’s so much research around this stuff. It’s like, why don’t you just embrace it? And like, You’ll feel so much better
[01:07:19] Rich Ryan: [01:07:19] cry.
[01:07:20] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:07:20] Why wouldn’t,
[01:07:21] Rich Ryan: [01:07:21] if you could eat more food, like, why wouldn’t you like, you should just want to do that. I think that that is, it’s more, it’s more fun to eat more food.
[01:07:29] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:07:29] It’s like, I understand if you don’t want to take in gels and stuff, it’s just like, Eat something that feels, that tastes good, you know, it’s like, yeah, that’s interesting.
[01:07:39] It’s just interesting mindset, but it is what it is for sure.
[01:07:44]Rich Ryan: [01:07:44] well, I don’t want to take up your whole day. I do appreciate popping on lots of awesome stuff here. The great takeaways. So where can people find you on like social or if they want to reach out.
[01:07:54] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:07:54] Yeah. I’d say Instagram’s the best way to reach out to me, at Johnny Luna, Lima
[01:08:00] Rich Ryan: [01:08:00] on, on Instagram.
[01:08:02] Good for you.
[01:08:03] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:08:03] Yeah. Yeah. yeah, that’s definitely the way to go. yeah, just DME there, or comment on a picture and they’ll get back to you.
[01:08:12] Rich Ryan: [01:08:12] What is the sugar baby thing?
[01:08:15] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:08:15] Oh, that thing, I don’t know. It’s someone, some old dude just dropped a comment.
[01:08:20] Rich Ryan: [01:08:20] There was two of them.
[01:08:21] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:08:21] Yeah.
[01:08:23] Rich Ryan: [01:08:23] Another dude said something too.
[01:08:24] And I like, and I like clicked into them. I was like, who are these people? And they’re like creepy people.
[01:08:30] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:08:30] I was like, damn.
[01:08:34] Rich Ryan: [01:08:34] Yeah. I was like, should I ask Johnny about this? Or is this some weird world that he’s in? Or should I just leave this off the table? Some old guy got drunk and started commenting on your thing.
[01:08:43] It’s like, Oh man,
[01:08:44] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:08:44] I was flattered. I was flattered. I’m like, it’s not my style, but I’ll take it
[01:08:50] Rich Ryan: [01:08:50] now, now. So they’re probably sugar. Yeah. You probably have sugar. Daddy’s going to be tuned in. They’re going to be, you’re like on a hashtag or somehow get the sugar daddy hashtag on all your posts and they’re hitting you up now and they’ll be like a target.
[01:09:02] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:09:02] Yeah, I will see. I mean,
[01:09:05] Rich Ryan: [01:09:05] maybe that could be. Maybe that could be that mountain trip, that expedition trip that we talked about before to take your sugar daddy with you.
[01:09:14] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:09:14] Yeah. He’ll pay for me.
[01:09:17] Rich Ryan: [01:09:17] Just keep, just keep that if Katie’s coming and the Instagram post come in and you’ll get that trip.
[01:09:22] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:09:22] Yeah, definitely.
[01:09:25]Rich Ryan: [01:09:25] well, cool dude. Yeah. I’ll make sure to link to everything on, on social. So people know where to find you. And, well this is a son. I appreciate you popping on.
[01:09:32] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:09:32] Yeah, man. Let me know if you go for the F Katie in your backyard. That sounds fun. It’s definitely.
[01:09:37] Rich Ryan: [01:09:37] Yeah. I mean, it’s nothing else to do.
[01:09:40] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:09:40] Yeah.
[01:09:41] But yeah. Thanks for having me. it was fun.
[01:09:44] Rich Ryan: [01:09:44] Cool, man. I’ll talk to you guys later. Alright.
[01:09:46] Johnny Luna-Lima: [01:09:46] Peace.
