How Kris Brown has found success in ultrarunning and Spartan Race.

Kris Brown is an Ultra athlete, Spartan Pro Team member, and coach who has seen success in many distances including a top ten finish at the Western States and a dominating performance during the Tahoe Spartan Ultra. He joins the podcast to talk about his process.

 

 

Kris’s Sponsors

https://www.hokaoneone.com/

https://squirrelsnutbutter.com/

https://www.runinrabbit.com/

 

Rich Ryan: [00:00:00] Hello, endurance peoples.

[00:00:05] Kris Brown: [00:00:05] We have a great episode for you

[00:00:07] Rich Ryan: [00:00:07] today. We have Chris Brown, AKA Chris, Bob Brown. He joins us on the show. And for the first about 12 minutes, we built some rapport specifically around the restaurant industry, which Chris isn’t a legit expert on. So sometimes you just can’t help myself.

[00:00:20] I got to learn more. And this was no exception. So for the first about 12 minutes, that’s what we talk about. But Chris, along with being an expert in the restaurant industry is also an expert in running and endurance training. And he is specifically an expert in running for a long, long time and sometimes between obstacles.

[00:00:37] So Chris, he is an ultra athlete, Spartan protein member, and a coach who has seen success in many. This is in many distances, including a top 10 finish in Western States and a dominating performance during the Tahoe. Spartan ultra in 2019. So we do a deep dive on how to learn from the signals that your body or sound sending you to help you problem solve during a long race, the difference in mindset and performances and different distances and how to mentally and physically prepare for an ultra race.

[00:01:05]so it was awesome. It was much more of a conversation than an interview, which is great. It’s very enjoyable for me. So I really liked it. It was great. This is an awesome dude. Very engaging, very entertaining. So let’s get it. Chris Brown.

[00:01:25] We’re recording Chris Brown. Hello?

[00:01:27] Kris Brown: [00:01:27] Howdy.

[00:01:28] Rich Ryan: [00:01:28] What’s going on culture, mid set, but told you were starting. And

[00:01:30] Kris Brown: [00:01:30] I could relax. I just noticed, that there is quite literally a rat in there, this room with me somewhere.

[00:01:39] Rich Ryan: [00:01:39] So that should be nice and relaxed. We want it to be as tense of a situation as possible.

[00:01:45] Kris Brown: [00:01:45] I will be literally on my toes.

[00:01:49]Rich Ryan: [00:01:49] well, cool. Well, I’m excited to dive into some, some of the goods, but first I have some questions for you at the, we call it the rapport round. Are you ready?

[00:01:55] Kris Brown: [00:01:55] I’m ready.

[00:01:56] Rich Ryan: [00:01:56] So what is your favorite chain restaurant with a caveat that is like a chain restaurant where you must sit down and like the food is brought

[00:02:03] Kris Brown: [00:02:03] to you.

[00:02:04] Do you know that I’m in the restaurant industry?

[00:02:07] Rich Ryan: [00:02:07] I like only because you told me like five minutes ago,

[00:02:09] Kris Brown: [00:02:09] I own a restaurant here in Santa Barbara. No way we could do. We could do a two and a half hour podcast just talking restaurant stuff, man.

[00:02:19] Rich Ryan: [00:02:19] That’s even better. That’s perfect. So now you, you, the slum it a little bit.

[00:02:23] Well, what’s your restaurant, what kind of restaurant do you have?

[00:02:26]Kris Brown: [00:02:26] well, so I am, I own part of a Cuban restaurant in Santa Barbara, not the Cuban part. I’m working my way out of it. but, yeah, me and me and two, longtime friends and, Cook buddies opened up a spot here in Santa Barbara.

[00:02:39] Rich Ryan: [00:02:39] It’s going to be a grind, right?

[00:02:41] Kris Brown: [00:02:41] Dude. Tell me about it. That’s I’ve been in the restaurant industry for a long time. I, having the opportunity to own a spot was, you know, a dream come true, cut. More like a nightmare come true. Like I knew that it was going to be horrible. and I was right. And so I’m working on getting out of it.

[00:02:56] The two guys with whom I own it are, are lifelong buddies of mine and there’s no hard feelings or anything, but we are under undergoing the process of getting the out of there so that I can be, you know, Healthy human again.

[00:03:09] Rich Ryan: [00:03:09] That’s good if there’s no animosity, because you feel like it would almost be impossible, like going into business with anybody.

[00:03:14] It just seems like, all right, well, you’re going to hate each other at the end. So that’s kind of a win.

[00:03:18] Kris Brown: [00:03:18] Well, yeah, even if you don’t hate each other, which is, I’d say most often the case, it tends to turn, it tends to, to ruin the friendship. And even if it doesn’t mean getting all the way to the point of animosity, it, at least.

[00:03:33]kind of sucks the joy away and turns it into a pure business relationship. So I think the best thing you can have at the end of it is like a really healthy. A business relationship. Like you can really, you know, have a good relationship with a coworker, but, it, it definitely takes the joy away from it a little bit to the extent that I can.

[00:03:51] And I think getting out of it when I am is a, a good step towards preserving those relationships. But, yeah, I mean, it’s tough

[00:04:00] Rich Ryan: [00:04:00] for, I need some space to breathe for awhile. I’m like, we’ll hang out eventually.

[00:04:04] Kris Brown: [00:04:04] Yeah. It’s tough to like, it’s tough to have. I mean with anyone, but like people who are really important to you and then you’re just going through horrible shit every day, day after day.

[00:04:17] Like it’s really hard to, at any others, a million things on your communal to do list all the time. And it’s really tough to see those people and be like, Hey man, how’s it going? Cause you know, it’s not good. And you know, shit that both of you have to do. And you know, that like things. The as good as a restaurant could possibly be going there, there are still going to be things that are going wrong.

[00:04:40] So there’s just something about like, you see the person. you’re working with and you’re like, yeah, I like, we have so much shit to do. I’m like, there’s no time to have fun right now.

[00:04:50] Rich Ryan: [00:04:50] Like, like you said, there is always so many moving pieces and there’s gotta be something that’s going wrong. How do you know if a restaurant’s doing well?

[00:04:56] Like, it seems like it’s a crap shoot, at least from the outside as just straight up consumer, you think a restaurant is doing well, it’s like busy, like the food’s great. And like it’s closed, you know, like, yeah. We’re going to tell when it’s out. Good venture.

[00:05:10] Kris Brown: [00:05:10] So you mean, you mean how do you know if it’s doing well from the outside?

[00:05:14] Rich Ryan: [00:05:14] No, from like the inside, like, like how do you, like, is there, is it straight numbers based or is it morale based or is it just a feeling of it?

[00:05:24] Kris Brown: [00:05:24] I should go into there. so. well, restaurants have changed a lot. The culture in restaurants has changed a lot. I would say, even in the last, like five to 10 years restaurants, historically, and like recent history, you know, since let’s say restaurants became kind of culturally important in the way that they are now in like maybe the eighties, nineties, like when French cuisine started coming to like.

[00:05:52] When I guess creative and probably French cuisines cuisine are coming in the United States. And it wasn’t just like, you know, meat and threes. It everything’s always been based on the French brigade system, right. which is a technical term, but it means that, kitchens are run like the military. there’s no real conversation in there.

[00:06:09] Everything is, you know, fire this, we chef fire that we chef it’s all jargon. communication, super regimented. so, Hm. And I’m getting at one of the ways you can tell if a restaurant is going well or not. so that that’s, as you might expect, It’s that’s kind of falling apart or it’s not so much falling apart, but it’s being questioned.

[00:06:31] It’s being rethought as a whole,

[00:06:33] Rich Ryan: [00:06:33] as an industry. Yes.

[00:06:35] Kris Brown: [00:06:35] So the value of metals until health was never, never talked about it was never a priority in restaurants until very, very recently. So now there’s all these chefs who are like, and people in restaurants generally, who are questioning it, who are like, you know, why, why, why in the fuck do we have to be, you know, why is it that the only way you can measure success as an individual in a restaurant is by how hard you work, how many hours you work?

[00:07:02] Like, why are we bragging about it? It’s the same with a lot of other, you know, work-related cultures, but like everything in the restaurant industry is how badly did you get chewed out? And how many hours did you work? And those are measures of success. Right. Like the worse it is for you, the more proud you are of it.

[00:07:21] That’s how restaurants have always been and it’s being rethought. and, and there’s a big push towards making restaurants, more emotionally sustainable places. So, all right. So one of the ways you like measure the success of a restaurant is, you know, the extent to which you can have a good time while you’re working there.

[00:07:37]so there are, I would say there are plenty of places that shut down. Not because they’re not doing well financially, but because, they. Aren’t, they don’t have a system that’s sustainable for the people that work there. meanwhile, there’s other places that, that are, are working toward that or, or maybe they’re not, but, there are places that, are full every night, that are, that kind of seem expensive that put a lot of work into managing labor and food costs and everything.

[00:08:04]and it’s just still not there. Like the best case scenario, restaurants, profit margins are insanely slim. I heard about, I was, I heard about the books at this really, really popular, somewhat famous now and super hip restaurant in LA. And they’re doing 14% as a profit margin. And you might hear that as, you know, if you’re someone who like works for a tech company or, or anything else, you might hear 14%.

[00:08:32] That’s really slim. That seems dangerous. And I hear 14%. I’m like, Holy fuck.

[00:08:37] Rich Ryan: [00:08:37] They’re making money

[00:08:39] Kris Brown: [00:08:39] rushing a successful restaurant is probably four or 5%. That’s like that defines a successful restaurant. So yeah, the, the, the point is like, man, it can be busy. It can be slow. It there’s just no way to tell because, It’s just so tough, man.

[00:08:55] There’s like, there’s a million things you spend money on. And then there’s a million people who come in and it’s like, the math comes down to just such a tight it’s just to the wire every time. And it’s, it’s so unpredictable and, yeah, that’s. That’s tough scene, man.

[00:09:12] Rich Ryan: [00:09:12] It’s like, I couldn’t imagine what the profit margin is like trying to get it right.

[00:09:15] Just how much you’re balancing inventory and just the fluctuation of like the people coming in and out. And the other dependents, like pandemics that pop up. How do you guys, how are you guys holding up?

[00:09:27]Kris Brown: [00:09:27] you know, they’re thrown out a bunch of statistics, like. I heard recently, 85% of restaurants are not going to make it through the pandemic.

[00:09:35] I don’t think that’s true

[00:09:37] Rich Ryan: [00:09:37] based on what they just like saying stuff 85.

[00:09:41] Kris Brown: [00:09:41] Yeah. I’m sure there’s some math behind it, but like the there’s more to be done, but there, the government has certainly been kind to restaurants so far. I think most of us are in a position where if, if we act properly, we can get a pretty good amount of government.

[00:09:59] Subsidy, which all has to go to labor or pretty much all of it has to go to labor. and then you can kind of, everyone’s having to revise their business models to be more, streamlined, simpler, So you can have a smaller staff for that. You’re going to be doing fewer numbers because maybe you can only see outside, you can do fewer guest per night, but you can, you can match that with labor.

[00:10:19]you know, food costs remains relatively static, no matter how many people you’re doing. So like streamlining it, plus some subsidies. And like, it seems it’s certainly not ideal and no one would want to open or restaurant in those conditions. But like, I think. A lot more than that are gonna make it out.

[00:10:35] There’s going to be a lot of places to close. We’re not going to, we’re going to be fine, treading water, but it’s, you know, cool. We’ll make it.

[00:10:42] Rich Ryan: [00:10:42] Yeah, no, they’ll be some innovation that comes out of this. If that is something that is part of the process moving forward is just being a little bit lighter, being a little slimmer or whatever it is.

[00:10:51] Like there will be things that positive to come out of this. Whenever that is,

[00:10:55] Kris Brown: [00:10:55] I think there’s a lot of places that are not going to reopen for dine-in. Especially, I’m thinking like I’m walking around in Santa Barbara and I there’s like a, there’s a Vietnamese spot. That’s doing a. You know, like sandwiches and fun and stuff.

[00:11:07] And, there’s always this like old lady in there owns the joint and, you see her in there now and she’s just like, you know, it’s a small, tiny room and she’s just in there, like watching TV and hand in bags to people. I’m like, Oh shit, this she is right now realizing that she never wanted that.

[00:11:24] Rich Ryan: [00:11:24] This is what I wanted.

[00:11:25] Yeah. It’s

[00:11:27] Kris Brown: [00:11:27] my downgrade. Yeah. I think it’s, I think that’s going to happen. This is the rapport around. These are supposed to be quick

[00:11:32] Rich Ryan: [00:11:32] questions. Now it’s report. You can go as deep as we want, but usually we do like to cap it. So we’ll move on because people came here to learn to learn about some ultra training, but you didn’t answer the actual question.

[00:11:44] What’s like your favorite chain restaurant that you would sit down in.

[00:11:47] Kris Brown: [00:11:47] Yeah. In and out for sure. He kidding,

[00:11:49] Rich Ryan: [00:11:49] but that doesn’t count. Does it, like you order at the counter? I’m thinking like Apple BS.

[00:11:54] Kris Brown: [00:11:54] Okay. Yeah. Shit. I thought you were going to. Yeah. by the way, if you, if you go through the drive through your school, who goes, facts, sit down.

[00:12:05]man, it’s probably. I don’t do that. That often in and out. It’s like my one fast food spot that I’ll go to.

[00:12:14] Rich Ryan: [00:12:14] That’s just what everyone from everyone from the West coast just feels obligated. Is there some contract? You guys signed something that like, Hey, if anyone asks you about fast food, like talk about in and out, talk about how great it is.

[00:12:24] Shit on all these coast stuff.

[00:12:27] Kris Brown: [00:12:27] I, I, it on the East coast. I mean, it’s genuinely good.

[00:12:31] Rich Ryan: [00:12:31] It is good. I did. I do go when not when I’m out there. Hmm.

[00:12:34]Kris Brown: [00:12:34] sit down, you know, I’ll just, I’ll just throw in another California plug and may give you a general answer and that’s any. Any Mexican food, in Santa Barbara, it’s a surprisingly good Mexican food town.

[00:12:46] So if I’m looking like, it’s not a chain restaurant answer, you know

[00:12:50] Rich Ryan: [00:12:50] what, this is over, this is

[00:12:53] Kris Brown: [00:12:53] that all right. Great job through the rapport round. So let’s,

[00:12:55] Rich Ryan: [00:12:55] let’s just give the listeners an idea a bit more about who you are as an athlete and as a

[00:13:01] Kris Brown: [00:13:01] sure. Yeah. So I am, I guess, yeah. Primarily an ultra runner, a ultra trail athlete.

[00:13:08] I do really anything. I’m kind of going, yeah. This might be a, a, a reference that some of the OCR athletes won’t get, but I think kind of go the Ian Sharman model. He’s a really. Well-regarded ultra runner and he he’s a specialist in anything from the half marathon to the a hundred and plus mile races.

[00:13:30] So being fit for everything has always been a priority for me. But if I, if I were to say, I’m good at it particular kind of range, it’s probably the 50 K 200 K thing I run for Hoka, and rabbit. And do and dry max and squirrels, net butter and stuff. But I also, I also am on the Spartan pro team. So I dabble in small obstacle course racing.

[00:13:48]I had got into that. I actually ran one of the first Spartans ever back in like, Oh, 2010, maybe. Hmm. maybe no, it was probably 2009 in Malibu. and so I kind of dabbled for a while on that. Okay. I ended up running a race in Sacramento. And, I raced against Hoby call and Hunter McIntyre. And what I think was his first race.

[00:14:10]and I finished right between those two. It’s like a ton of, I have this cool photo of me and Hunter and Hoby back in like 2010. And it’s like, you know, I hope he wasn’t. And he was speeding. We’ve flown around by the company at that point, but he wasn’t like, you know, Famous lucky

[00:14:29] Rich Ryan: [00:14:29] Hunter either. Yeah.

[00:14:30] Kris Brown: [00:14:30] Yeah. And Arthur was just starting a, yeah. I try to do a little bit of everything. but yeah, mostly ultra that’s my specialty.

[00:14:38] Rich Ryan: [00:14:38] Yeah. And that’s what I find interesting about you, because like, you do have such a pedigree when it comes to ultra. Like when you look at your, your finishes, you’re always in the top, like you win a bunch of races, like your top, your 10th and 13th at Western States and consecutive years.

[00:14:51] So like, what is it about. You wanting to span into other things. And like last year you took OCR, like. It seems like fairly seriously. Like we went to a bunch of races, you traveled quite a bit for it. So like, why are you branching out into other things of why do you do like the Ian Sharman method where you want to be, a generalist for lack of better words?

[00:15:09] Kris Brown: [00:15:09] Yeah. I mean, I’m a lifelong runner run like an E. Events of a variety of distance and discipline. I’ve always been, interesting. And I mean, the reason, yeah, I’m doing Spartan stuff is so fucking fun, dude. It’s so fun. And it’s such a grind. Like I do a hundred mile races and Spartan races are so hard to me.

[00:15:31]and there’s just something really beautiful about how difficult they can be. if you give it all, you got. It’s almost like an a triathlon. I mean, it’s much like in a triathlon when you, because of the fact that you’re switching disciplines, you end up kind of able to give more to it because you’re not stressing one muscle group so much that just gives out and then you race over, the fact that you have to use everything in a Spartan race.

[00:15:56] Again, if you push yourself that gets you to the finish line, feeling more exhausted than I think you can. It’s just a running race, which I think is super cool. it’s a really fun challenge now. That’s not to say. That, that it’s not the case that 99% people who are doing Spartan races are just out there doing or taking selfies.

[00:16:17] So, you know, that’s, that’s tough. Every time I’m out there, just like you guys, you realize how rewarding this would be if you were trying hard, but I’m just shit talking now.

[00:16:27] Rich Ryan: [00:16:27] A little bit, but that’s okay. I’ll join it. And then it’s always like when they people complain about the courses not being hard enough, I’m like what?

[00:16:33] Talking about run harder, hard enough. Like you’re not trying hard enough because like, this is plenty, freaking hard, no matter if it’s one sandbag or two sandbags or whatever it is, like it is ultimately hard. And is that, is that just kind of how you’re wired or has that always been something that you’ve wanted to take on like a bigger challenge and wanting it to be.

[00:16:55] Hard,

[00:16:56] Kris Brown: [00:16:56] I guess the initial thing that was compelling about Spartan, or obstacle races in general was that I found, again, this is back in 2010. I found what I identified at the time to be a loophole where they had these races that were, Sort of designed to, to appeal, to was CrossFit, even a thing.

[00:17:18] And then, you know what I mean, to appeal, to like, you

[00:17:22] Rich Ryan: [00:17:22] know,

[00:17:23] Kris Brown: [00:17:23] energy drink, Jim goer, professional, like the type of people who were doing these things were like big buff

[00:17:30] and

[00:17:30] Rich Ryan: [00:17:30] tough.

[00:17:31] Kris Brown: [00:17:31] Yeah. And. I w you know, I’m a runner, I’m like a relatively lean dude, and I could just go in and clean up at these things. So I did one with a group of friends, just for fun.

[00:17:41] And I, and it was just hilarious that like a group of cross country runners came in and just destroyed all these guys who thought they were,

[00:17:47] Rich Ryan: [00:17:47] did you destroy everybody?

[00:17:49] Kris Brown: [00:17:49] Yeah. Yeah, really? They’ve made the obstacles a little harder since then. I think, But really what’s changed is the athletes. Like I did a few of them.

[00:17:57] I dominated with the exception of, Hunter, who I barely beat and Hoby who beat me pretty handily. and then I took a long hiatus and then, some surfing, the stars aligned circumstances came about that. I ended up getting back involved last year, through just, you know, getting invited to a couple of things and having some friends involved and it just happened.

[00:18:17]But I came back and I was like, Oh, I remember that. I remember how fun that was to beat up on those big

[00:18:21] Rich Ryan: [00:18:21] buff guys, those not honors.

[00:18:23] Kris Brown: [00:18:23] And then I hopped in and I was like, Oh shit, this changed. This has changed.

[00:18:28] Rich Ryan: [00:18:28] Yeah. And that’s almost having happening year after year. Like I started in 2016, like my first race is 13 and it took a couple years off and just didn’t go after it.

[00:18:38] And like from 16 to now, how much better my fitness is. And I’m still like, Where I was essentially in 16, the running continues just get better and better. So people aren’t going to get fit like year over year, for sure.

[00:18:50] Kris Brown: [00:18:50] Yeah, totally. So the initial appeal was to, I mean, it was competitive and kind of like a little bit of a middle finger, but, but you know that then the other side of it comes in where like, it’s really, it’s really interesting to have that particular challenge and,

[00:19:04] Rich Ryan: [00:19:04] Yeah.

[00:19:04] Yeah. And I think that is like, I had a little bit of that thought is welcoming. It’s this, like, I will come in and I will, I have a running background. I’m fashion. These people, it’s just a running race. Like it’s not going to be a problem.

[00:19:16] Kris Brown: [00:19:16] Yeah. What is your running background, Richard? What did you, what’d you?

[00:19:20] Rich Ryan: [00:19:20] I ran, I D D one. Mid-major here in Philadelphia at st. Joe’s. What’s

[00:19:25] Kris Brown: [00:19:25] that what’s a mid major. So like a, a

[00:19:28] Rich Ryan: [00:19:28] big school power, five conference would be like the pack 12, like Oregon mid-majors are like, I was in the Atlantic 10 conference. I went to st. Joe’s. So that would be like, I’m trying to think of school.

[00:19:39] And on the West coast, you guys are mostly big state schools, right? It’d be like smaller, like Catholic schools, like Xavier or Marquette.

[00:19:46] Kris Brown: [00:19:46] Yeah. It’s so

[00:19:50] much to running. Cause like, do you want to see one?

[00:19:53] Rich Ryan: [00:19:53] Yeah, a little bit. I mean, we had some like one or two good teams, but like a team never would go to like cross Nat gnats or anything, or like you dealt like an individual go and maybe you get an all American that comes out of like the best runners, like an all American, but like the running is like, It’s fine.

[00:20:07] Yeah.

[00:20:08] Kris Brown: [00:20:08] Steeple guy or across

[00:20:09] Rich Ryan: [00:20:09] yeah. Steeple and cross. Yeah. Classic. Yeah, it really is. I guess I did steeple then. Cause I like was I played basketball in high school, so I was more athletic than quote unquote then, the other runners and then I just. Did OCR they’re like, Hey, write this way.

[00:20:25] Kris Brown: [00:20:25] Have you said

[00:20:27] Rich Ryan: [00:20:27] I’ve done one?

[00:20:28] I did one last year, I

[00:20:29] Kris Brown: [00:20:29] guess.

[00:20:32] Rich Ryan: [00:20:32] Yeah.

[00:20:33] Kris Brown: [00:20:33] It’s, it’s, it’s definitely a pattern of, if you look at the top end of the ultra running community, not obstacle course stuff. it’s a lot of, staplers.

[00:20:43] Rich Ryan: [00:20:43] Why, why do you think that is?

[00:20:45]Kris Brown: [00:20:45] I think it has to do with like versatility, what’s the opposite instead of being fragile, a resilience

[00:20:52] Rich Ryan: [00:20:52] to resilience,

[00:20:53] Kris Brown: [00:20:53] durability, that’s the word I was looking for?

[00:20:55]they both worked. Yeah. I think it has to do with that. It’s like, okay, if everyone’s a distance runner, who’s going to be able to convert to something as extreme as an ultra. And it’s probably the person who’s like making the distance running harder already by jumping over shit.

[00:21:09] Rich Ryan: [00:21:09] Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

[00:21:10] But back then, I like. The running was also like, I felt like the steeple, like the runners didn’t know until like Evan Jaeger, Jaeger. Now he’s like a runner that can stand up and pretty much every distance or in the U S at least it wasn’t. It was like the fastest guys when the 15 and the five K 10 K. And then.

[00:21:30] The other people would run the steeple who could

[00:21:34] Kris Brown: [00:21:34] Jagger and Coburn are definitely the two who are breaking all, but come to think of it. That’s for sure. True life. It was, if you took the. It was, it wasn’t so much that it was a specialized skill as it was just that like the best runners working,

[00:21:50] Rich Ryan: [00:21:50] they didn’t want to do it.

[00:21:51] Why would they

[00:21:51] Kris Brown: [00:21:51] do it?

[00:21:53] Rich Ryan: [00:21:53] Which 5k

[00:21:54] Kris Brown: [00:21:54] or when, why, why run an ultra if you can get no TQ in the marathon. Right. Exactly.

[00:22:01] Rich Ryan: [00:22:01] I think about that sometimes for, for OCR in general as well. Like if we had a runner who would be an Olympic trials, qualifier, or have potential to the Olympics, like they wouldn’t come into OCR and get like.

[00:22:13] Fifth, you know, like they might not even,

[00:22:16] Kris Brown: [00:22:16] there are some exceptions, I think that’s generally true. There are some exceptions to that. Like, woodsy for example, was on some Oregon team based out of Stanford. So woods he’s like a 13 mid 5k guy. so, you know, if he had gone to the marathon right after college, A hundred percent.

[00:22:33] He’s a high, high end finisher at the Olympic trials.

[00:22:36]

[00:22:36] Ryan Atkins, I don’t know if he just didn’t figure out that he’s a good runner in time, but if Ryan was just, just switched to ultra running, he would immediately be at the top. or close to it. So, I think it is, yeah, it is the case with some of these guys that like, well, an album is obviously a high level performer,

[00:22:57] Rich Ryan: [00:22:57] but he wasn’t, I don’t think he was a very good Scholastic runner.

[00:23:00] I don’t think he ran collegiately either. I don’t think, I don’t think forever

[00:23:05] Kris Brown: [00:23:05] system over there. yeah, like. Tom Evans, who’s an Adidas runner, ADI dos, who was telling me about, their kind of collegiate system over there. And it made no sense to me. Like if you’re good, you run club. There’s no like high end collegiate system.

[00:23:22] That’s not the path that people take. The amateur school-based running.

[00:23:26] Rich Ryan: [00:23:26] I kind of wish it would make sense. Yeah. Like if you’re going to go be an athlete in your prime, like. Then you shouldn’t be a student at the same time. I wasn’t a student. I was a runner. You know, I didn’t get a, really a college education.

[00:23:40] Cause I didn’t care for school for that reason. Might myself first. Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t go to college to like, if there was yeah. Club route, like I didn’t need to go to college. Like, you know, if

[00:23:52] Kris Brown: [00:23:52] you run

[00:23:54] Rich Ryan: [00:23:54] a nine Oh eight damn girl, there was like just under the. Regional qualifier at the time, like two years in a row.

[00:24:02] So I was like, fine, but, but yeah, here we are now in, in OCR, but that’s kind of the, and like it’s the same kind of deal. Like I said, people kind of come into a steeple and in the same way they find themselves into obstacle course racing. So I’m glad you’re back. Yeah.

[00:24:17] Kris Brown: [00:24:17] It’s, it’s cool. How people come to it from all these different spectrums, you know, like you can look at the star line and see Ryan Atkins and Ryan Woods and they could not be more different athletes.

[00:24:25] And yet they’re. So similar at this one middle ground, this middle ground battleground for those two.

[00:24:33] Rich Ryan: [00:24:33] Do you think if more ultra high end ultra runners came in? Like, is that something that is, Oh, I was gonna tell you off air, but I’ll tell you now Kerryn Malcolm was on the show earlier. Yeah,

[00:24:43] Kris Brown: [00:24:43] she said was bullshit.

[00:24:44] I don’t know if she was posing as a science, but man, that girl has no idea what she’s talking about. That’s

[00:24:49] Rich Ryan: [00:24:49] a big words to me. And I just was like, That must be the case. Yeah.

[00:24:56] Kris Brown: [00:24:56] She’s a good friend. Yeah.

[00:24:58] Rich Ryan: [00:24:58] Yeah. I said, you’re trying to get her into, do you think, like more, if more high end ultra runners came in, they would find the success that, that you have found or would it be a harder route for them?

[00:25:08] Or do you think that they would need to be ultra Spartan athletes right from the jump? Or how do you think that would, that would go?

[00:25:15] Kris Brown: [00:25:15] I think, I think it’s almost identical to what would happen if. so we were talking before about how, like why would you do one event if you’re good at this other event?

[00:25:23] Right. So if you were to take, all of the men and women who you can run an Olympic trials, qualifying time at the marathon And put them in, start putting them all on ultras. That would be a terrifying, I thought to the ultra running community, cause here are like some legit runners who aren’t benefiting from this tiny community that we have, who are coming in to, you know, see all our thunder.

[00:25:49]I, I used to be worried about that. And then I saw it happen a bunch of times and the rate at which those types of runners can convert. To the ultra distance is really low. There’s some who can and they’ll get through, Jim Walmsley, Hayden Hawks. those guys have seriously legit collegiate, credentials, and they made the transition ultra and it worked max King.

[00:26:10]There’s not, but by and large, it doesn’t work. Like they make the transition, right. They just can’t hang. Okay. I think it’s a metabolic thing. There’s a variety of things. Like it’s the same reason you saying bolt can’t run an 800. It’s just not going to happen.

[00:26:25] Rich Ryan: [00:26:25] So you think there is like a threshold there in terms of what you’re capable of?

[00:26:30] Like where is that line drawn? It’s not 26. Is it 50 miles?

[00:26:35] Kris Brown: [00:26:35] Like, I mean, the difference between a 26.2 mile race and a 31.2 mile race is profound. It’s like once you get into ultra, even at 50 K metabolism becomes just such a huge part of it. And that’s such an X factor. Like you don’t know if you have that, if you can convert, if you can develop that skill until you do it and try it and train it and, and, and, and willingness to do it, it’s also part of it.

[00:27:00] But with regard to transitioning into ultra, I think it’s the same thing. I think, if you were to look at it and say, well, why don’t we have all these ultra people or even, you know, marathoners or whatever, like we were to have them do a bunch of pull-ups and then try to do an OCR race. Some, it would work for some of them, but the vast majority, it wouldn’t work for.

[00:27:20]and that’s like a little bit of a purpose horn toot there because like, you know, I made it work I’m okay. You know, I thought I was going to be better at OCR and I think I have more potential than I showed this year. Like I think I can run, in the top tier, like, I don’t think I’m a better athlete than Atkins, but I think like at a national championship type thing, I should be, I should be in that group or I can be in that group.

[00:27:44]For the most part, ultra like, look at ultra runners, man. They just don’t, they don’t have the biceps for it. Right. There’s like have to be a certain type of strong that isn’t usually compatible with running that far, like, muscular for an ultra runner. there are some guys like me. Like if you look at body type, some guys who I think might be good at it, like Eric Senseman, I think could be a good OCR racer.

[00:28:07] Is that redundant at that point? Oh, see racer.

[00:28:14] Rich Ryan: [00:28:14] You can tell. Right.

[00:28:18] Kris Brown: [00:28:18] Tom Evans, the audience guy I was talking about, I think he would be good. but Jim Walmsley would be horrible. There’s no way he could do it. Jeff Browning might be good Kerryn. I think it would be awesome. She’s a former biathlete so she’s got different skills, man. She’s she’s a skier.

[00:28:33] She’s strong as fuck. So, I mean, I think she could convert

[00:28:38] Rich Ryan: [00:28:38] that smear

[00:28:39] Kris Brown: [00:28:39] probably. Yeah. I don’t think many people well could, there’s definitely like a small pool. Go to and say they probably could though. So,

[00:28:45] Rich Ryan: [00:28:45] yeah. And on your ends, when you first came on my radar, like you were there way before I was, but then the first race that I saw you in was in Seattle and

[00:28:57] Kris Brown: [00:28:57] no it’s happening.

[00:28:58] So

[00:28:58] Rich Ryan: [00:28:58] historically I have had until two years, I would be one of the faster runners and persistently miss obstacles. And that day. You were passing me and then you were doing terrible on the opposite.

[00:29:12] Kris Brown: [00:29:12] I recognize you from,

[00:29:15] Rich Ryan: [00:29:15] yeah, a lot of it. Like you, you would pass me. And like, we were like the buckets together and I think we both missed Z wall.

[00:29:21] Did you miss any well,

[00:29:22] Kris Brown: [00:29:22] no. Oh,

[00:29:23] Rich Ryan: [00:29:23] you did not miss you. Well, I’m a seawall, so maybe I was a petty at that point, but I, then I caught up to you somewhere else. And I was like, this guy is the fast guy. Who’s terrible at obstacles. And that’s, that’s my corner. This guy has some nerve stepping on my toes. That’s like,

[00:29:35] Kris Brown: [00:29:35] what did you

[00:29:36] Rich Ryan: [00:29:36] do to like shore things up?

[00:29:39] Because later in the year, that didn’t seem to be as much of an issue as it was on that one specific day. Granted, it was wet. It was cold. There was a miserable day, but still. The best OCR athletes, they’re getting through most of the obstacles most of the time. So like, how did you, did you find place for that or just kind of figure it out as you were doing more races,

[00:29:59] Kris Brown: [00:29:59] big part of it was that it was wet that day and, the upper body obstacles.

[00:30:03] Well, I guess they’re all kind of upper body up, but the, the hanging obstacles are way harder when it’s wet. So I think, a lot of the obstacles were kind of right in my. right at my threshold of being able to do them comfortably, but when they got wet, they were just out of my range. So I was spending a lot of effort on the obstacles, which is ruining my race, and my sort of ability to get, get through it quickly.

[00:30:26]Another part of it, was that, even if I, I don’t think I got much stronger over the course of the year, but just doing the obstacles over and over again and improve it. It’s not even like improving the technique, but just building a little bit of muscle memory with them goes a long way. So, in my first couple of races, like, not twister, Peter.

[00:30:46] Oh, you, this twister twister was really hard for me. just cause it’s like, it’s not a very fluid movement. but then you aim and you do it. Do you decline at all?

[00:30:56] Rich Ryan: [00:30:56] I do now just to get better at ups course reason.

[00:31:00] Kris Brown: [00:31:00] Yeah, I did. and I noticed like, so if you’re in the gym bouldering, you can climb a route.

[00:31:07] It’s like just out of your wheelhouse and you climb it, you know, say you spend like a couple of weeks projecting this route and then you finally get it. And yeah. You know, you tried it a hundred times to get to that point and you finally get it. And then. so you take a little break, take an hour off and go back.

[00:31:24] You’re going to get it again.

[00:31:26] Rich Ryan: [00:31:26] You know how to do it.

[00:31:27] Kris Brown: [00:31:27] Yeah. So there’s something about just, like subtle body positioning, and just, yeah. Efficiency of movement that just makes it easier. And I I’ve had a fit a lot from that over the course of the year.

[00:31:36] Rich Ryan: [00:31:36] And will you then just kind of mentally. Recap it cause I spent, I find, I spent a lot of my time just thinking about how to do them, just so I remember, because if I’m in a race and I’m just exhausted, all like, forget it.

[00:31:50] I’ll just be doing it wrong. All of a sudden, Oh shit, I forgot this. I’m supposed to do it this way. Or you will. You’re mentally going over it or were you pretty confident once you got them? You got them.

[00:31:59] Kris Brown: [00:31:59] I was pretty confident when I got them. I got them. I mean, I was fortunate to, Go to several races over the course of the year.

[00:32:06] So I get really got to solidify them pretty quickly. yeah. And they’re not exactly like super complicated, so

[00:32:12] Rich Ryan: [00:32:12] let’s stay on the grip thing just for a little bit, because it’s when I found some athletes who I coach, who are kind of moving up in, in distance. And I think it’s a good Avenue and I think.

[00:32:22] Ultra, like, I think that trail, I do want to talk about the Spartan trail series a little bit as well. I think trail running and ultra running wills, Z a little bit of an influx from people kind of filtering through Spartan and then into those avenues because they just want to kind of push themselves a little bit more or they just like running in the woods a bit more than they thought then maybe like the obstacles a little bit less.

[00:32:42]but when people are training for these ultra distances, They do get so fatigued that, that I’m supposed to become a challenge. I’m like that second lap. was that like in your case, did you find that your fitness could just be elevated high enough that. You could handle everything on that second lap in terms of the obstacles, or were you training specifically for upper body endurance or like late stage carries endurance for, for these types of ultra races?

[00:33:11] Kris Brown: [00:33:11] I, why? I said two, I only did one of the ultras in the regular season and I was Tahoe. And then I did ultra worlds in Sweden, but, I guess I was surprised at how it wasn’t really a factor. I didn’t find that on the second loop, I was particularly fatigued on the upper body stuff. I kind of expected that I would be, especially at, Tahoe and we had the monkey in the middle obstacle, which is about as tough of a grip obstacle as you could ever have.

[00:33:41]but yeah, I, you know, it didn’t hit didn’t really, I think it’s just because you have, So much time to recover between them. and then, you know, it’s weird cause it doesn’t feel like that when you’re doing one of the shorter races, it feels like each obstacle burns you out for the next one. but I don’t know.

[00:33:57] I guess that’ll have a solid answer for that way. It just wasn’t a factor. But even in, even in Sweden, you know, doing 21, 22 hours of loops on the same obstacles, like. You know, when I did twist her for the first time I barely made it. And then I, you know, eight months later did twister 10 times over 21 hours.

[00:34:23] So, I don’t know if it was very odd that it just held up.

[00:34:26] Rich Ryan: [00:34:26] Yeah. And then I wonder if it is just like, The exertion that you’re putting out, or if you’re are giving yourself more time or if it’s just more of a relaxed feel and the conditions do play into it a lot. I mean, like, I think the obstacles in Tahoe are basically on the West coast in general, where it’s are easy.

[00:34:41] They’re just watching here than they are in Western, in your Palmerton or Seattle for that matter. how was it like in, in Sweden? What did the Coldplay factor for you when it came to the grip stuff?

[00:34:52]Kris Brown: [00:34:52] it didn’t really, again, like, I think we all kind of expected that, but, and I think if you messed up your glove situation, it might’ve been a problem.

[00:35:00]but really it was just wear warm enough gloves that your hands stay warm. And then just go to bare hand when you’re doing the obstacle, be quick about it and then put your gloves back on. it just wasn’t that much of a problem. And it was so cold that, everything, I mean, A couple of obstacles, sets of ice on them.

[00:35:18]but as long as, you know, you know, you’re not flying through it and being reckless with that, it’s pretty easy to avoid slipping.

[00:35:23] Rich Ryan: [00:35:23] Hmm. And in terms of like effort compared to, I know you, you don’t have too much experience when it comes to the Spartan ultra stuff. So like, I don’t know how this question will be in terms of comparison, but like, are you approaching the race in the same way?

[00:35:39]that you’re just like, I’m going to get it to my pace. And just going to sit where I know what I can handle for five and a half hours and just do it, or is there a different approach because of, you know, you’re coming up, you know, there’s going to be a sandbag carry a bucket carry, or like, was there any sort of change in your approach from ultra to a Spartan ultra

[00:35:58] Kris Brown: [00:35:58] Spartan ultra is much closer to a regular ultra than a shorter distance.

[00:36:02] Spartan is to it. Equivalent rates of that distance because you do, you do get an opportunity to settle into a running pace in a way that you don’t in the normal day. Like the difference between a Spartan beast and a regular half marathon as a physical experience is ridiculous. Like the way I try to describe it to people is if you like, imagine you’re going out and running a half marathon, but every five minutes you have to sprint for 20 seconds.

[00:36:29] Like that physical experience is really different from just going for a half marathon PR

[00:36:35] Rich Ryan: [00:36:35] the time ends up being like twice as long. Right? Like making it another marathon in another half. Yeah.

[00:36:42] Kris Brown: [00:36:42] Yeah. At that point, like you’re, you’re keeping your heart rate lower because the hard part about, you know, the shorter distances is like, Your red line the whole time where you’re not in one of the ultras, you just, you, you have to take, you take a couple of breaths before an obstacle.

[00:36:57] Your pace is slow enough that you get to recover between obstacles. it’s a much mellower or experience. I think the other ones are way, way more difficult in terms of like in the moment pain, I think.

[00:37:09] Rich Ryan: [00:37:09] And how does that change your. Actual like mindset around it because having this wide range of races that you choose to do and you want to do them well, when you are going up to a race is it’s a hundred year

[00:37:21] Kris Brown: [00:37:21] longest.

[00:37:23]yeah. Is my longest,

[00:37:24]Rich Ryan: [00:37:24] like when you were preparing for. A race that’s a hundred miles versus a Spartan super in like Virginia, which is like flat, right? Like that’s like an hour long. Like how, how does that change your mental approach to it? Or like coming into race day? Is there a different approach or are you kind of single-minded on that?

[00:37:43] Kris Brown: [00:37:43] Well, it’s, it’s hard to say almost because. If you’ve signed up for a hundred mile race, it’s pretty likely that you care more about that race than you do about a shorter race. Like you don’t do a hundred unless you care about it because it’s gonna, it’s gonna fuck your body up for months afterwards.

[00:38:05] Rich Ryan: [00:38:05] It’s not a five K.

[00:38:07] Kris Brown: [00:38:07] Yeah. I mean, there are some exceptions to that rule. Like there are some people who can hop in those and be okay a week later. But for the most part, like if you signed up for a hundred, it means a lot to you. So. yeah, just because of, just because of what you, what it’s going to take out of you, there’s no, just like there’s no hopping into it just cause it sounds like a good time.

[00:38:27]so in terms of preparation, in terms of like caring about what goes into a week or two in advance, it that’s at a definitely a different level. But in terms of like, you know, your mentality. I, yeah, I guess there’s, there’s just more weight to it. Yeah. But, you know, I, it’s just a matter of scale, not of category it’s, it’s all kind of

[00:38:46] Rich Ryan: [00:38:46] gotcha.

[00:38:47] So it wouldn’t be one, you don’t feel like the performance is affected either way based on the mental preparation for it. It’s just a matter of like, is it just the sheer distance of it and like what might happen to you during that time? That makes it. Feel different. I mean,

[00:39:02] Kris Brown: [00:39:02] not what might happen to you.

[00:39:03] What’s definitely

[00:39:06] Rich Ryan: [00:39:06] what’s about to happen.

[00:39:06] Kris Brown: [00:39:06] Yeah. Yeah. There’s so many more, so you have to, you have to be more patient. wow. That’s super profound.

[00:39:19] There’s not, there’s not usually an element of problem solving in shorter distances, even in Spartan. Race is where, where there’s obstacles. Like once you do the obstacles once there’s no more like there’s no more creativity. Whereas when you’re doing ultras in every race, you know, your body’s going to give you signals that you have to interpret and they’re not straightforward.

[00:39:41] Like there’s a bunch of different ways that your body can tell you to eat. And only one of them is the feeling of hunger and the journey of becoming a successful ultra runner is figuring out. All those different signals and what they mean and how you ought to respond to them. So it’s way more complex than, than an obstacle course race, which is weird to say, but, you know, an obstacle course race gets there when it’s longer, just the distance and the time being out there, like the, the body management, is, is like, that’s the crux factor.

[00:40:15] Rich Ryan: [00:40:15] Hmm, when it, and doesn’t an interesting point that I hadn’t thought about when the different signals that are getting sent your way, like how, how can you help someone prep for something like that? Because it seems like that would be very personalized, right? Like, is it just a matter of going through it or is there a relate-ability as to like what you potentially might feel out there?

[00:40:35] Or is there any way to prepare for a race that’s let’s saving like a hundred K like. Without even without

[00:40:42] Kris Brown: [00:40:42] doing it. I mean, there’s certainly similarities that people have and you can certainly give people advice, when it comes down to it, like there’s going to have to be the experience of going through it and making a mistake and figuring out what you did wrong.

[00:40:53] Like I think most ultra runners, new ultra runners ought to expect the following experience running several, or at least a few ultras. Getting to a point where their body just feels like shit asking themselves, do I need food now? I should be good. Finishing the race, feeling like shit, looking back, realizing that in that moment they did need food.

[00:41:23] And it’s like, it’s so, and I mean, a lot of really does come down to food, but, yeah, figuring out like, Those signals are not straightforward a lot of the time, to figuring out all your body’s different languages when it’s in different States, that’s like that is the journey.

[00:41:44] Rich Ryan: [00:41:44] And like the one thing about alter running that to me holds me back is just the.

[00:41:53] Thought of the recovery, right? Like in being able to reflect and then troubleshoot and then try it again. It’s not like, does it does not like a Spartan race, like, right. Like you’re not doing a Saturday and then a Sunday, and then you change in Sunday. It goes better because you know how to do things.

[00:42:09] Kris Brown: [00:42:09] I think that’s cultural thing.

[00:42:11] Cause it is like, it’s insane. I think to this is it’s been so surprising to me to get into the inspired scene and see people like. Doing a Saturday race and then a Sunday race and then maybe a Sunday afternoon race. And then, Oh yeah, like I’m going to go out and do the same shit next weekend.

[00:42:25] Rich Ryan: [00:42:25] Next weekend.

[00:42:27] I thought so too. Cause it’s like coming from a running background, like you raced like. Once every other week in like

[00:42:36] Kris Brown: [00:42:36] runner, I think back to college, I’m like I released every other week. Yeah.

[00:42:41] Rich Ryan: [00:42:41] Right. And there’s something to be said about experience though. And I think that’s, I mean, I think it is just fun. Like you said, like. OCR is just fun. So people want to go out there and they want to do, do things they can’t do in their normal lives.

[00:42:55] And it’s a good time and like getting better at the obstacles. It does take practice how we talked about before the more reps, and then you can get through it the more confident you can feel. And I feel like there is a place to kind of double back as much as I don’t like to, or would not like to. but like in the ultra ultra world, like.

[00:43:12] Is it just a lot of figuring out what you can do so next time, and then you just screw it up again the next time. Or like how many times can you think you can go? Is it ever finished? Like, or like the people at the highest level are they dialed in? Like, are you dialed in with your process to the point where you can kind of predict how you’re going to feel?

[00:43:32]Kris Brown: [00:43:32] I think you can get good at it. I think let’s call it like. Like, like a good baseball player bats like three 50,

[00:43:41] Rich Ryan: [00:43:41] right?

[00:43:43] Kris Brown: [00:43:43] I think there’s like a much wider range. Like an ultra running, a good, a good batter. That’s like 800 and a bad battery. That’s like, you know, the 100 that would be normal in baseball.

[00:43:55]but then I, you also like there’s choices to make there too. Like, You I’m to the point, I think, I mean, I’m still new to this. Haven’t run that many races. There’s so many people who are serious veterans compared to me, you look at a guy like Karl Meltzer, who’s one 40 plus a hundred milers, and you can look at him and say like, all right, well that dude’s got a title.

[00:44:16] Like he clearly knows how to do it, but I kind of do too. But I know like I. I could give you an 80% performance tomorrow. Like I’m real sure that I could do that, but then there’s this secondary choice you have to make where it’s like there, there’s an infinite number of risks you can take, like you could, you could run a smart race and run like 80 or 90% of your potential.

[00:44:47] But if you want to go for a hundred, like, There’s some risks in there that are not a matter of like, there’s some, there’s some chance in there there’s, it’s not even a matter of like deciphering your body signals anymore. It’s a matter of doing that perfectly and getting lucky. And there are some support.

[00:45:03] We do that. Like, I mean, Jim moms like to bring him up again, like he does that. He knows that he’s the best to fucking Jim Wamsley. Like he’s a friend of mine. He is like, he’s very polarizing. Well, I think what he is doing in the sport of ultra running is so cool. Like he knows that he is in terms of sheer talent.

[00:45:26] Well, his arguable Killian’s really good too, but he’s, he’s basically the best guy we’ve ever had in terms of sheer talent. He knows that and he’s willing to sacrifice. almost every race in order to an end his career, generally, in order to harder to do things that we’ve never seen in the sport, like gym.

[00:45:50] Jim’s like his training is so crazy that he, he will personally admit to you that like, yeah, I got five years. I want to break all the records and then I’m going to burn out. He’s giving that to us. You know, that’s a gift like he’s going to do. Some things in this sport that no one’s ever been able to do, because he’s willing to put it on the line.

[00:46:12] And he’s a guy who could have just sat back, been smart about it, given an 80%, won every race and stayed in the sport for 20 or 30 years. But he’s using the fact that he has the highest potential of anyone we’ve ever seen. And he’s just like doubling down, taking all the risks so that he can do some shit that is like, Generational level extraordinary.

[00:46:37] Rich Ryan: [00:46:37] And these are the athletes. Like it that’s like, it’ll be a paradigm shift, right? Like athletes are artists come along every now and then. And it’s like, Oh, before and then Wamsley came and then everything changed. Right. And then that will spark a new generation of somebody that will push to even take it further until the next momsie comes.

[00:46:54] Whenever that is. Do you think that is something that he like. Thinks about it. He’s like I’m taking us somewhere else and I’m going to be that legend. If he gets PR on his end or anything, think it is like you said, it’s a gift to help everybody else. Like. Push a little bit further and see what we’re really capable of.

[00:47:12] Like what do you, what do you think it’s like both?

[00:47:14] Kris Brown: [00:47:14] Well, I, I know that he’s told me, he knows exactly what he’s doing and it’s not a gift to us. Like, let let’s show people this so that they’ll push themselves further. It’s like he’s sacrificing himself in order to. In order to benefit us spectators. It’s not to inspire us.

[00:47:35] It’s like, Oh man, what’s it like, there’s, it’s almost like an astronaut man. It’s like, he’s thrown into space knowing that there’s a chance he’s going to die, but he’s like, If he sacrifices himself going up ship, like humanity, we’ll have this thing that we did. Like, he will be back like, like Jim’s the most silly, awkward dude.

[00:48:00] I love him. It’s just like, I don’t, I’m so proud of what he’s doing. It’s so cool.

[00:48:06] Rich Ryan: [00:48:06] And that is, it’s a cool way to approach it. And it has to then, then make it easy, but it like to make your training crazy. Like if you really want to have that as your goal, like your is going to have to be crazy. So like, there is no reason, like there’s no reason for him to pull back or to, to, to resonate.

[00:48:26] Why, if that’s his goal, like then. He’s going to be a mad man.

[00:48:30] Kris Brown: [00:48:30] Yeah. And events. And he’ll say it, man. Eventually it’s gonna catch up to him. He’s going to get a career ending injury. He’s going to burn out. It’s going to happen. And that’s, it’s not just the bet that he’s making. It’s the deal that he’s making.

[00:48:45] Rich Ryan: [00:48:45] That is really cool. And, and, and something that in the ultra world in general, that is, there’s the point. Like, you know, people can do 50 Ks and the Spartan ultra is. You know, you can wrap your head around what a 30 mile is or 31 miles or whatever it is. but when you get into that a hundred mile distance, there’s like a real, like a fear that like, you can’t really comprehend what that’s like.

[00:49:12] Like how, how do you make that jumper? How do you help people give, give them that push to like go into that unknown space.

[00:49:21]Kris Brown: [00:49:21] part of it. I mean, a lot of it is just building like there, I, I, there is something kind of magical about the a hundred mile distance where for most people that is one full day. So there’s something different about going beyond that, because then you’re starting to deal with sleep deprivation, which does make it categorically and not just in terms of scale different, but it is also the case that, introducing, like, I mean, it’s, it’s a very simple thing to say, but introducing things slowly and scaling up over time, it has a very interesting way of making things easier.

[00:49:55] Like the first 50 K that I did was so hard and I was wrecked afterwards and then I did a 50 miler and I was wrecked after that. And then at a hundred K and it was wrecked after that, then it went back to the 50 K. And it was like super mellow and I wasn’t in better shape. It’s just the, my body had this, a deep understanding of what it meant to go longer than that.

[00:50:19] And so doing a 50 K was no longer that profound of a thing. I don’t think it’s all mental. I think there’s some, , that’d be all mental. Like there’s, we’re talking about like muscle damage here and joint swelling and stuff. But when you scale up slowly, One of the most fun things about getting into ultra running is that you can always go down and distance.

[00:50:41] And it’s so fun to do that because it doesn’t hurt anymore. Like 50 days are. A 50 K to me, it’s like, if you’re training for the five K and you dropped down to the 1500, you’re just like, like, Holy shit, we’re moving, man. I’m just sprinting. This whole thing that’s already been done now. It’s just all fun and no risk anymore.

[00:51:02] Cool.

[00:51:04] Rich Ryan: [00:51:04] How does that affect the training then? Because that’s something where if I’m I was going to make a huge jump, I feel like I would get way carried away with training to the point where I feel like I’d be over prepared or injured. so like, how does that change based on the race distances and just helping people kind of like.

[00:51:22] Like no, they’re going to be okay. Because, there’s gotta be some sort of faith at some point. So like, how do you stop people from just going crazy? Or like, how do you build people up appropriately?

[00:51:31] Kris Brown: [00:51:31] I think at any ultra distance, like, there’s this, like you said, there’s a certain amount of faith. Like you can’t.

[00:51:37] You know, if you’re talking about like training principles and how long your, your, even if you get up to the marathon, like how long your long run not to be, yeah. In, in relationship to the race distance, right. You can’t apply that to a hundred mile race. Right. So there is in a technical sense. There’s no way to properly prepare for a hundred miler.

[00:51:56] Like you can get really good. You know, there’s, I’m so conflicted on trading. Cause like, I think there’s so many different ways to get fast. I’ve gone through like, you know, classic collegiate Daniel’s linear training, and then totally abandoned that and just got it up into the mountains. And rather than three hours a day, and then come knock on any speed work and come back down like a year later you’re like, Oh man, I’m probably out of shape.

[00:52:23] Or like, I probably can’t run fast. Cause I haven’t run faster than an eight minute mile in a year. And then hop on the track and look basically PR 5k. So I’m certainly not precious about trading styles. because again, like Roger Bannister broke the four minute mile, he would, he would take a train out to a track and he would alternate sprinting and jogging a 400 meters for half an hour.

[00:52:47] Like that’s how he broke the four minute mile. It’s ridiculous. yeah, so there’s a lot of different ways to do it. but in ultra running. And that’s another crux of it is like, you can’t actually prepare for the distance. So you have to kind of do a partial job and then you condition yourself for that like condition yourself, man.

[00:53:05] Totally. And I guess physically to the extent that you can for that, that extra bit, that your training doesn’t cover.

[00:53:11] Rich Ryan: [00:53:11] Yeah. And that’s, that’s, what’s hard about it, right? Like, is there, cause there can’t necessarily be a blueprint cause everybody’s gonna have different ability levels and figure it out. You can’t really kind of stick somebody in and be like, okay, you need to get to this many miles.

[00:53:26] Does it, do people ask you that a lot? Like, is that a question is like how many miles week to do, A hundred K or something.

[00:53:32] Kris Brown: [00:53:32] I think most people like that’s, that’s definitely the first question, but I think most people get over that one pretty quickly. because it depends obviously on like what terrain you’re on, how fast you are.

[00:53:44] It’s more about time, really. yeah. And this is, as I’m getting into coaching, this is like the big struggle that I’m facing is like my. A skepticism about particular trading styles and trying to, give advice to people. When I personally believe that pretty much anything goes.

[00:54:08] Rich Ryan: [00:54:08] Right. Cause has there been, has there been like a blueprint written because like you mentioned, Daniel’s linear.

[00:54:15] Like if you want to run a faster 5k, like you can follow this formula, whatever, do these principles and like they’ll probably get faster, but like you said, you could do it a bunch of different ways. So when you are programming for somebody and you’re not dogmatic in any specific way, or you just letting it.

[00:54:29] Fit into their life and what they like and what they can do, or is there anything that you need to see and from them in any specific way,

[00:54:38]Kris Brown: [00:54:38] you know, I’m, I’m maybe not totally qualified to answer that. I think if anyone, like I talked about linear and Daniels who are like, kind of the old school and sort of medium school, pillars of, of long distance training.

[00:54:54] If there’s anyone who’s doing that now, if, if, if anyone has adapted that to ultra running, it’s probably. Jason Koop and David Roche. Those are probably the two people with the most experience who understand it the most. But I, I still think we’re young, you know, I think, I think the best anyone’s been able to do is like, kind of keep some of those pillars of speed training, but just really shift the emphasis towards mileage building.

[00:55:22] Yeah.

[00:55:23] Rich Ryan: [00:55:23] Yeah. There needs to be some sort of intuitive sense to training and that’s always going to be the best way to do it’s like, what do you need to do on race day? It’s like, okay, there’s 8,000 feet of elevation during this run. So like, you’re going to need to do some. Hills, where instead of like making sure you hit certain markers or something along the way.

[00:55:41] So I think having that intuitive sense of, especially in ultra makes, makes for a better approach than trying to cause even like in like the Daniels or even like Hansen’s or whatever, I know there are specific marathon or half breath and they like, they’re like, there’s no, there’s no metabolic advantage for running longer than like three

[00:55:58] Kris Brown: [00:55:58] hours.

[00:56:00] Rich Ryan: [00:56:00] Daniel says that

[00:56:02] Kris Brown: [00:56:02] keyword metabolic.

[00:56:03] Rich Ryan: [00:56:03] Yeah.

[00:56:04] Kris Brown: [00:56:04] What about, what about your joints,

[00:56:06] Rich Ryan: [00:56:06] joints and fish? It was

[00:56:07] Kris Brown: [00:56:07] one of those assholes to go run a hundred miles and get 70 miles in and looked down at their knees and wished they hadn’t gone farther in a training run.

[00:56:15] Rich Ryan: [00:56:15] Exactly. And that’s like the whole point. It’s like, well, sometimes people are going to be out there longer than this.

[00:56:18] And like, how can you expect them? Not to even like marathoners, like they need, there’s like six hour marathoners. They need to train longer than three hours, you know?

[00:56:26] Kris Brown: [00:56:26] Yeah. That’s such a weird thing. It’s like the man that. The folks who are like, theoretically, they’re doing the same thing, but it’s taking so much longer.

[00:56:34] Like how do you even account for that? Cause on the one hand, like maybe they should be training harder considering the thing’s going to take them on. But on the other hand, so weaker athletes, you can’t give them more training.

[00:56:43] Rich Ryan: [00:56:43] Yeah. And a lot of, I mean, a lot of people in the, the Spartan ultras are going to take.

[00:56:50] Literally twice, as long as you take, you know? So like, do you get, do you get them out there twice as long, three times as long?

[00:57:01] Kris Brown: [00:57:01] Yeah. I don’t know, man. I don’t know. I think, I think you’re right about it being a very intuition based. You have to draw on the strengths of the athlete. Like if there’s someone who can handle a long run and just gets blown up by speed work, then I think you have to emphasize the long run.

[00:57:15]and luckily. I think that, as people who think about it a lot, we like the intuition thing tends to be, it actually tends to be a hard question to answer. So I think that’s a place in which we can help a lot. So, you know, if it’s often that someone comes to you and is like, Hey, I, you know, I have this goal.

[00:57:35] I don’t know how to get there. And you think to yourself, like, fuck, there’s a million ways to do this. How do I, how do I even start? But like, there’s a. Like just like thinking about it for a long time and coming up with something. Tends to be helpful for people. Cause you know, they, they don’t, we may have 10 places we want to start, but they might have zero.

[00:57:58] So like,

[00:58:01] Rich Ryan: [00:58:01] right. So starting anywhere, it’s just like let’s and like that’s the, that’s the part of the process. And if someone’s getting into ultra specifically, they need to have that specific time commitment associated with it as well. And something that I’ve struggled with with athletes, they’re like, Oh, I’m doing an ultra in 16 weeks and I’ve.

[00:58:19] Just starting running now. It’s like,

[00:58:21] Kris Brown: [00:58:21] man, dude, you need a year and a half at least.

[00:58:24] Rich Ryan: [00:58:24] Exactly.

[00:58:25] Kris Brown: [00:58:25] But it’s weird. Cause then like, some of the people you’ve been in it for a really long time and raced really often. I keep bringing up the same people over and over again, but I guess they’re just might cannon Carl melter.

[00:58:35]this is like hearsay and I don’t know. I don’t know, like I personally, but like. rumor has it, let’s say that, you know, homeboy runs like 50 or 60 miles a week. He just raises all the time. He’s just either, always recovering from or tapering for a race. And so like for him having done so many of these things, you settle into a rhythm where you’re just like, Every three or four months does a hundred and then just like runs a casual 50 or 60 every week between, and then like does another hundred.

[00:59:04] So he doesn’t, he doesn’t like put in training, like the race has become the training.

[00:59:09] Rich Ryan: [00:59:09] He rates himself in the shape. Interesting.

[00:59:11] Kris Brown: [00:59:11] Yeah. Yeah. As far as, you know, all the time recent itself and the shape, but like the, the idea of doing that with a hundred miles is very odd.

[00:59:17] Rich Ryan: [00:59:17] Right. And I don’t like, I try to steer people away from doing that particular cycle because most people are not Chrome Eltser and they need time to train, to get to a certain level.

[00:59:27] But like, if they don’t put in that associated training, they should, won’t ever really see that progress. Where, where he, or anybody. Like he can handle it at this point where most obstacle course racers are newer athletes, newer ultra runners. They really can’t. No.

[00:59:46] Kris Brown: [00:59:46] Sure.

[00:59:47] Rich Ryan: [00:59:47] So I was saying was, Oh, well, over that time commitment that these people need.

[00:59:52] So if they aren’t that and they do need to try it and we just start anywhere. Like, we’re going to be able to figure out what didn’t work at a certain point and try the second thing on the list of the 10 now.

[01:00:04] Kris Brown: [01:00:04] But that involves, like, you have to have time with this person. You can’t have someone who like signs up for three months of coaching.

[01:00:13] You know, you get to try half of one thing that amount of time. Yeah. And I mean, we were talking about like the, the difficulty in like, Pitching a product service and charging someone for something. Hmm. yeah, I mean, it really, fuck like, yeah, it’s so hard to, it’s so hard to, To like, agree to take on someone and know that you could be spending like a long period of time, not helping them in order to figure out how to

[01:00:42] Rich Ryan: [01:00:42] help them.

[01:00:43] We should help them. And there’s always that thing. It’s like, well, maybe this will work right away. It’s like, yeah, let’s do it for five months. And like this, you might adapt perfectly to the. First I did that I had for you and trying to figure those things out. So it’s hard, it’s hard to turn, to turn them back on because they’re going to do what their goal is either way.

[01:01:05] So it’s better to have some sort of guidance for them in that short amount of time. even if they might not get the results that they were hoping for.

[01:01:12] Kris Brown: [01:01:12] Yeah. I mean, luckily, luckily I think it’s the case that having any structure at all. Is probably beneficial for some, for most people. Like if you give them something, that’s not the ideal training.

[01:01:27] And the problem is once you get into people who are like really good, like fucking all my, the people I coach are good writers. So I’m constantly worried about doing the wrong thing with them. But if you like. If you were to take someone who’s basically off the couch, like who gives a shit, what you tell them to do?

[01:01:43] Like if they do anything, like the fact that you’re telling them what to do seven days a week. Means that you’re going to get better because if you weren’t telling them what to do seven days a week, they would just not run at all or right week. So they’re getting better, even if your, your programs and like night deal for them.

[01:02:01] But it’s, once you get into actually good athletes where like finessing, it is important that it becomes kind of like, you know, become something to stress out about.

[01:02:10] Rich Ryan: [01:02:10] Yeah. And I’ve, I feel that stress as well in those same circumstances, but it’s kind of like the same thing, like the principles of getting people good results.

[01:02:18] It kind of boils down to like making sure that they are recovered and that they’re like, and that they trust what the process is. Cause there’s a lot of ways to do it.

[01:02:26] Kris Brown: [01:02:26] How do you feel? I think this might be like, especially interesting. I think this might apply especially to obstacle course racing, but how do you feel about.

[01:02:36] The notion that you ought to be, let’s call it like macro periodization. Like, how do you feel about the notion that you need to continue to surprise your body? I don’t mean in like a CrossFit sense for like every day ought to fuck you up because you have never done a workout quite like it, but like, I’ll go like personal background.

[01:02:58] So I, again, I did like collegiate running just like you and I got out and like many collegiate athletes, like every season I would come in fit because I did good summer training. And then every season I would finish burnt out because we, my team and I raced every workout, including recovery runs. So it’s like I come in late August feeling great.

[01:03:22] September, like I have some great performances and the first couple of mates, and then through October, I’d taper off and then I’m burnt out in the wired and feeling like shit all the time. So I got to the end of college and was like, Oh man, I’m getting it out of college. Like I know how to train myself better than my coach did.

[01:03:39] Cause clearly I do because I finished every season slower than I started. So like I’m going to get a college, like do my own training. I’m going to get faster at everything and PR on 5k appear on the 10 K and felt way off and like was running slower than I had since like freshman year in high school.

[01:04:00] And then I, at a certain point, I was like, huh, well, I guess I’m going to switch now and circuit ultra. So I just like, basically threw my watch away and just went up into the Hills. And just started doing long runs on trails and not doing any speed, any road, any workouts, nothing structured. And I came back and I was accidentally way better at running.

[01:04:26] And so part of me is like, all right, I increased the volume, obviously. And you can go pretty far with just pure aerobic benefit. But the question I’m getting at is. Some people would argue that if you like every once in a while, say every like few to several years, you need to just like, totally change it up.

[01:04:52] If you’ve been a pure aerobic runner, like, guess what? You’re going into a speed phase now for a year. So if you’re a person who has been in structured Daniels style training, like, guess what, you’re going into the Hills for a couple years. do you believe in that or where do you think like continuing on the same program for a really long period of time is the way to go.

[01:05:10] I

[01:05:10] Rich Ryan: [01:05:10] think it’s just a matter of, of, of fatigue and rest at that point, being able to change things. So I think you, if, if you’re able to structure it and do the same thing and have it be like linear, as long as you’re managing the fatigue. Well, I don’t see why not. That’s why I, that’s how I think people switching.

[01:05:27] Like going from a speed phase to a distance phase gets them results because they just change the stimulus in the fatigue levels kind of change based on like, so they’re not just pounding the same thing, the same system over and over, and it can still kind of train as opposed to just like taking, like, I bet if you did that and you took like two months off a year and just kind of went back to what you were doing, you continue to get those gains, just cause you would.

[01:05:50] Be more, more fresh and you wouldn’t have that overload of fatigue. So I don’t necessarily think it’s, I don’t necessarily think it is benefit like necessary to do like a whole training block of quarters. And then the next one’s all threshold and then all is next. The whole next one’s all like marathon pace.

[01:06:07]I think it just kind of helps manage the fatigue a little bit more.

[01:06:09] Kris Brown: [01:06:09] Yeah, huh? Yeah. And I think part of it would be just like enthusiasm. You know, if you’re doing something like you can get total, you can totally get burnt out on, on a particular kind of workout. And it’s nice to just like, Start focusing on something else for a while so that you can just feel stoked about it.

[01:06:25] Rich Ryan: [01:06:25] Totally. And yeah. Or if you are, or if you dread the other side of that, can you just always want to do speed work then? Like, okay. Like, that’s fine. Like it comes along the same lines. Like if you can tell them what to do and they’ll do it. If they like doing speed work and they’ll do it and they’ll be invigorated and doing it, like they’re going to see results where you’re trying to put them on.

[01:06:43] 40 miles, 40 minute temple runs, and they’re gonna hate it and miss it, like that’s worse.

[01:06:49] Kris Brown: [01:06:49] Is there anything worse to do along the tempo

[01:06:51] Rich Ryan: [01:06:51] road, man? so what you got going on with Husky?

[01:06:57] Kris Brown: [01:06:57] Yeah. So, so as mentioned, I’m coaching now. I have been for a little while, but I, I joined a, what we call a coaching collective.

[01:07:07]and basically the idea is we are, it’s a group of coaches, And we sort of communally operate a service for athletes. So like, man, then it’s like, there’s, there’s some things that are kind of longterm about it. And there’s some things that are kind of short term about it. But anyway, like we’ve got, the kind of crux is to the thing are that, we collaborate on how we prepare training programs for people, which is like, that’s what got me.

[01:07:39] Hooked on it is or sold on the idea is that like I can write a training program for someone and know that before I give it to someone it’s going to be edited by, you know, two people who are Olympic trials, qualifiers and linked to people who are, you know, sponsored ultra runners. So I feel a little less self conscious about offering up a training plan that I write, because I know that some people who I really respect are gonna look at it, So chop Chesky has this slogan.

[01:08:06] That’s like, what did we call it? It’s re it’s like reinventing, on the online coaching model, which is like potentially leaving a bad taste in people’s mouths there. Cause like there’s plenty of online coaches in services and even groups that are doing a great job. and I think the phrasing of that might be like a little bit off putting, for those people that have been in it for awhile.

[01:08:29] The way that it is diff. So, you know, on the one hand, like, no, it’s not different from me that like we are collaborating, that’s been done before. It’s great. We’re inspired by that, the way in which it is potentially different. Is that it’s structured, it’s structured in a way that promotes growth and diversification.

[01:08:50] So like we’ve got a whole, a bunch of coaches. we’re going to be onboarding more coaches as we go. It’s almost going to be like a fucking peer. Yeah. So there’s going to be like, coach, light’s going to be like top tier mentor coaches, and then like, another level of coaches and another level of

[01:09:07] Rich Ryan: [01:09:07] coach you’re going to be out of track meets like pitch and kids go, Hey.

[01:09:10] Yeah. That makes money.

[01:09:11] Kris Brown: [01:09:11] You heard about tiered, which is cool. there’s also going to be a bunch of other services we offer. There’s going to be camps. we’re doing a bunch of events. Like we had a treadmill world record thing that happened a couple months ago where like, cool. Yeah, we had, yeah, that was us.

[01:09:29] We did, we had got there. It’s not like it’s hard to get treadmill world records, as of a couple months ago, but, there was a world record set at the half marathon marathon, 50 K a hundred K 50 mile like men’s and women’s, it was crazy. Like every record there was is gone now.

[01:09:44] Rich Ryan: [01:09:44] That’s cool.

[01:09:45] Kris Brown: [01:09:45] Yeah. So there’s like camps, there’s events.

[01:09:47] There’s, you know, there’s well online camps and in person camps, online camps who knew what those were a couple of months ago.

[01:09:53] Rich Ryan: [01:09:53] Yeah.

[01:09:54] Kris Brown: [01:09:54] So the idea is like we’re set up for scale and diversification in a way that other online coaching programs are not. So we’re not different than that. Like we’re not saying we’re the first ones ever to collaborate.

[01:10:06]But there is like a little bit more in terms of the way in which we’re set up to expand. So, that’s, I think the kind of cool part about it, and as someone who I, I consider myself a relatively inexperienced coach. That’s what got me on board is knowing that I could reach out to all these other coaches for support as I try to write programs for people.

[01:10:24] Rich Ryan: [01:10:24] And to me that it, that that is, a different approach because it is because of the collaboration and being able to. Too. Cause usually the group coaching model is like one coach does it for a bunch of people, but this is like a bunch of coaches doing it for one person. Right. It kind of flips that, that, that model, which is cool, which is, which is really cool.

[01:10:46] So it’s was like the program you’re going to get is going to be really sound, something you can totally trust and like the names that are on there and like the experience of the people who are involved are really top notch. I saw those, those online camps. That’s how I came across the website and it’s all you’re on there.

[01:11:00] How’d those go?

[01:11:02] Kris Brown: [01:11:02] They do. They were really cool. I mean, again, like we are right now really long and resources and, and not, and like kind of short, and this is just like how the thing is designed to grow, but like, we have way too many good coaches and not enough athletes yet. So it’s like, I’m coaching with Mike warden and Pete Kostelnik and, and, Kimber Maddix and Devin Yanco.

[01:11:27] And it’s like, so all of us have like two athletes weird, but then, you know, the cool thing is where it comes in is like, yeah, we do these camps and, you know, people sign up and it’s like, you’ve got. Five or six presenters who are all world-class

[01:11:44] Rich Ryan: [01:11:44] runner. Cool. Really cool presenters.

[01:11:47] Kris Brown: [01:11:47] That’s the cool part of it.

[01:11:48] So, yeah, right now we’re like, again, we’re set up for growth. We’re over resourced and under, attended, but you know, the idea is, as it grows, like we’re, we’re already set up to take, you know, 50 times the did the, I guess, under structure that we. Currently have.

[01:12:06] Rich Ryan: [01:12:06] Yeah.

[01:12:07] Kris Brown: [01:12:07] Cool. So, I mean, basically they’re on certain topics.

[01:12:10] We have different people giving lectures on specific things and, you know, try not to overload anyone in particular, but it ends up kind of keeping it fresh and, we’ve all got cool shit to talk about. So

[01:12:20] Rich Ryan: [01:12:20] yeah. Yeah. I was going to attend the F I forget what was it that I was going to attend? And then I didn’t think about it for a couple of weeks.

[01:12:29] Kris Brown: [01:12:29] What are you looking at?

[01:12:31] Rich Ryan: [01:12:31] The one that you were there was the ultra one. And then there was one that like, look, Scott Fabo was yeah.

[01:12:36] Kris Brown: [01:12:36] Marathon one.

[01:12:37] Rich Ryan: [01:12:37] Yeah, that woulda been sweet. I just read that book. We read his book, the inside the marathon,

[01:12:42] Kris Brown: [01:12:42] he wrote it.

[01:12:43] Rich Ryan: [01:12:43] He wrote it.

[01:12:44] Kris Brown: [01:12:44] Yeah, that guy’s too young to be writing a book.

[01:12:46] What it’s like,

[01:12:46] Rich Ryan: [01:12:46] nah, it’s like, it’s him and his coach Ben Rosario. It’s like it’s real time. Accounts of him preparing for New York in 2018, I guess. So basically it’s just like his training journal and like, They wrote it separately. So like his coach wrote what he thought was going on and then Scott wrote what he thought was going on and just goes through like week by week.

[01:13:07] It’s fucking cool. It was really good.

[01:13:09] Kris Brown: [01:13:09] Have you ever read running with the Buffalo? So

[01:13:12] Rich Ryan: [01:13:12] it’s exactly like running

[01:13:13] Kris Brown: [01:13:13] it’s like it’s like running with the Buffalo’s, but with an added dimension to it, just the, the observer who’s like writing the workout based on watching it. And he’s not, he’s not the athlete.

[01:13:25] He’s a journalist, he’s watching the thing. This is cool. Cause it’s, you know, it’s the coach and the athlete Canada, you get to come up with. Kind of a, a unbiased portrayal of what’s going on by watching well people and how they describe it.

[01:13:39] Rich Ryan: [01:13:39] Exactly. And it’s real, honestly, then like a nails, like of course it nails it, cause he’s, he’s doing it, but he’s when he writes it, he writes the feeling of what it’s like to train at a, a high level, like really relatable.

[01:13:48] And like, it’s like really exciting to read and like, be like, Oh shit, like he’s going after it. It was cool.

[01:13:54] Kris Brown: [01:13:54] What do you think caused more stress fractures? running with the buffaloes or eating disorders

[01:14:04] is commonly even towards

[01:14:07] Rich Ryan: [01:14:07] probably percentage,

[01:14:08] Kris Brown: [01:14:08] percentage base. The people who wrote, who read

[01:14:10] Rich Ryan: [01:14:10] it versus people who are prone to eating disorders. I would say that’s true. That’s fair. I should go back and read it. I haven’t read it in. Yeah, I read it in college and I was like, this is the greatest book I’ve ever read.

[01:14:18] So that’s still my mind as the greatest book I’ve ever read, but on the, I’m not sure I should go back and revisit it.

[01:14:25] Kris Brown: [01:14:25] Yeah. It’s pretty brutal.

[01:14:27]

[01:14:27] Rite of passage.

[01:14:28] Rich Ryan: [01:14:28] Totally. we’ll do this is great. I really appreciate you taking the time working out. Where can people find you? There’s the chocolate

[01:14:35] Kris Brown: [01:14:35] Chelsea I’m on there.

[01:14:36]I’m on the Instagram’s relatively find-able. I don’t necessarily recommend it, but I’m on there. I don’t know, man, Google man. You figure it out. That’s

[01:14:44] Rich Ryan: [01:14:44] fine. Chris Brown runner with a K. Yeah,

[01:14:48] Kris Brown: [01:14:48] actually, you know what, if you, if you, so there was a professional football player, Who spelled his name or with my name who spelled it my way.

[01:14:56] And I currently, I think I am more represented on the first page of Google

[01:15:01] Rich Ryan: [01:15:01] than hit. Nice.

[01:15:03] Kris Brown: [01:15:03] Which yeah, but that could have to do with my search history and it might be nice for me, but

[01:15:09] Rich Ryan: [01:15:09] yeah. Yeah. Just knows. You’re Googling yourself. Yeah. Well, he’s Googling himself again, show him his pictures.

[01:15:14] Kris Brown: [01:15:14] I did that

[01:15:15] Rich Ryan: [01:15:15] for a, I did that for woods.

[01:15:16] I was like, I searched Ron woods similar kind of, you know, not a crazy unique name

[01:15:23] Kris Brown: [01:15:23] because you were doing an image search. You were looking Ryan Woods and you were just trying to find them.

[01:15:27] Rich Ryan: [01:15:27] That’s all I wanted, but it came up a soccer player, like a brain, like a British soccer player. There was no short shorts when I.

[01:15:37] He must’ve

[01:15:37] Kris Brown: [01:15:37] turned safe. Search off,

[01:15:40] Rich Ryan: [01:15:40] went incognito. Yeah. sweet dude. Yeah. So I’ll link, I’ll link to your socials. We’ll find even though, so people really want it. If people want to seek this out, they can, they can find a man. So do it again. I appreciate it. So we’re signing off. I’ll hit stop on this, but we’ll stay on and that’ll be that.

[01:15:55] So

[01:15:56] Kris Brown: [01:15:56] I appreciate

[01:15:56] Rich Ryan: [01:15:56] it. We’ll sign off. I’ll see you later.